Experience At Findley Park

jav,

Never mind, love. It's okay:)
*Wreck,
Your comments are *the* most meaningful I have ever read on this site. It reminds me of the humility I need to practice in order to be a happier and more compassionate person. In my opinion, being stable and sound is a great defense to attacks both para and normal. I'm going to bookmark this page and review it when I am rattled in the future and tempted to shoot my mouth off.

Thank you very much for reminding me- it is so easy to forget.

Sincerely,

~sacul

😊

[at] sacul,
And just who do you think I owe additional apologies too? Certainly not you, as it is obvious to all but yourself, you are the one following me. Yes dear, in case you are the last to realize that fact. Everyone else knows it to be true.

"Now quit trolling alan's post. The man asked nicely"

Alan never asked me to leave his thread dear. Check yourself. Now quit making up lies before you lose what's left of any credibility you ever had.

Jav

wreck-
Thank you, but I have just as much to learn from you- so feel free to do the same. I shouldn't respond in kind to insults, but I have a lot to learn.
Well put, sir.

~S 😁

Don't mean to detract here, but I need to ask a question.

Sacul,

Why so 'down' on Jav? Her comment that started this was aimed at me as much as anybody else involved with the 'debate' that had broken out and I didn't take any offence to it. It helped to 'ground me' hence the comment I made next, the one where I said I was 'stepping' away...

Let's drop all the back and forthing... The 'crying' about I thought we could offer our opinions without being judged... We can but we all need reminders every so often of what the guidelines of this site are... And how they keep us FOCUSED on 'GHOSTLY and PARANORMAL EXPERIENCES' and not Religious Debates.

All this 'crying' has taken away from any help the O/P could be receiving. And with that being said...

WE NOW RETURN YOU TO YOUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED PROGRAM...

Respectfully,

Rook

sacul-
You're absolutely right and I really need to work on including everyone no exceptions. I know there is no justification for allowing myself to get so upset with people. Thank you for reminding me I will try to be more mindful but please never hesitate to offer some guidance if you see me out of line. Thank you again.

Just get to strike three already. Your threats are not at all intimidating (but easy to make safely from behind a computer monitor) 😆.
Good for you on the apology. It looks like you owe a few more, but that's a nice start. I'm truly sorry about whatever happened in your life that has made you so bitter. It must have been pretty awful. Now quit trolling alan's post. The man asked nicely. 😉

[at] sacul,
Your words here...
" It's a beautiful belief that places emphasis on tolerance of others, no matter how negative, irritating, sardonic/sarcastic, condescending, etc..."

Geez, why so harsh? Or are you just trying to put an emphasis on my best qualities? I am confused. I can't tell if that was an insult or compliment. 😆 😆
And the umpired cried "srike two!"

Jav 😆

[at] Wreck72,
My apologies for not making myself more clear. What I was having a problem with is the discussion itself. Lately it seem there have been a rash of Biblical debates break out on this site. You arrivng late in the game, just could not have known this. But seeing that this topic is frowned upon here, as stated in the rules and guidelines, some of us were hoping to see a break from it.
Maybe my way is a little harsh, but at least it stopped it for a while. And for that I am thankful.

Jav

"I still really suggest reading up on Buddhism one of their common teachings is not to believe what you are told no matter who tells you with out first thinking it through for yourself. "

Excellent advice. It's a beautiful belief that places emphasis on tolerance of others, no matter how negative, irritating, sardonic/sarcastic, condescending, etc... A particular person is. Perhaps Jav is here so that we may exercise some of its teachings?
I'm shocked, too, at how much support she receives. You'll find a number of threads where that's not the case, however. It's SO hard to muster up compassion for someone that tries hard to belittle those around them, but she certainly deserves some.

❤

I am amazed how much praise Jav is getting for blatantly trolling my post. I list my 3 favorite books and mention what's said in Deuteronomy not to mention my 1st post I butchered a story from Samuel and Jav ends her post in a rant about ignoring the old testament. Maybe she just doesn't know the bible at all. I still am confused how some one can start a post saying "Okay kids, I was trying not to let this bother me, but I see it so often that I figure someone needs to step in and set the record straight." then tell us how we are wrong for having our own opinions and beliefs calling us hypocrites and ending with "I'll say it again, humble yourselves before you lose favor boys"

Yes Jav thank you for setting us straight so we hypocritical "Kids" and prideful "boys" can go humble ourselves and study our old testament.

I like when I am out of line such as with the story Samuel and some one corrects me like Rook did and he was even very polite about it. I really enjoyed that Alan sent me an email to talk with me. My little girl is 6 weeks old and has been keeping me busy but I hope to get an email back to Alan soon I am really looking forward to talking him.
I almost posted a reply to Jav's post earlier but figured I should ignore her obvious attempt at trolling me, and I still am not about to explain to her why so many of her post rub me like lemon juice in an open wound but I will say the big difference I see between the 2 of us is I know I'm a hypocrite. I like hearing about what people believe it gives me something to think about. I'm sorry if any one ever feels like I am directly attacking their beliefs I think some of my attempt at explaining that I think some details are not as important as they are made out to be based on stuff like the name of Christ not being correct did not go over quite as I had intended My post here are usually rushed and do not always come out as clearly as I would like. I share my beliefs in hopes people with consider them as well. I know I have mentioned it many times but I still really suggest reading up on Buddhism one of their common teachings is not to believe what you are told no matter who tells you with out first thinking it through for yourself.

If anyone wants to discuss anything at all with me feel free to email me might take a while for me to respond though. Alan I promise I will get back to you soon and thank you again for emailing me.

Jav has got a real good point there, in tha last 2000 years wars have fought over that book and how different men read it.

Score 1 jav.

Hero

JAVELINA- WADR, the Bible IS the inerrant Word of God; yes, I know this.

Jav,

You've hit the nail on the head dear heart.

I'm going to back away slowly. It's obvious I have my own 'feelings' concerning this topic and I tend to get very 'passionate' about it and this is NOT the forum for this discussion.

Respectfully,

Rook

Okay kids, I was trying not to let this bother me, but I see it so often that I figure someone needs to step in and set the record straight. It seems so all important to you that each of you have the one and only truth. This debate has been going on for centuries, and by much more learned men than yourselves. The Bible has been picked apart and pasted back together in so many different ways. And all of them were just so it would meet a certain sect of believers each time. Neither of you can say you know what is the true way of doing anything. All I hear is "the book of this says to do that, and the book of that proves me right". Get over yourselves and be humble before you both lose favor. Arguing verse and chapter against chapter and verse. As if either one of you are right. Telling others what those words mean. When did you come to this point? Where you are now all knowing and secure in your belief that you are the last word on it? "Be not as the hypocrites who..." does that ring a bell? And just where are the 'Chosen people' in this mighty debate? Did you toss out the Old Testament too? You know, the Bible Part 1? Is that not also God's word? I'll say it again, humble yourselves before you lose favor boys. Because when push comes to shove here, none of you can say you really know anything. Stop assuming you are right in all things Biblical. Especially if you continue to ignore ALL of what has been written.

Thank you and have a lovely night.

Jav

Sorry for my last comment it ends sounding very much like I was saying I'm right and you're wrong I didn't realize how bad it sounded when I post it. The pray for wisdom was a James 1:5 reference god promises to give wisdom. My favorite book are Ecclesiastes, proverbs, and psalms so my view on wisdom is to seek it out continuously and I believe it is valuable enough that everyone can benefit from seeking more. To more clearly explain why I think Christianity is the best choice for me verses Buddhism or other faiths is the fact that Christianity actually has a decent focus on sin most people view this aspect of Christianity wrong sin is not the terrible trait people should be judge on by man. Sin is the single unifying trait all of man kind has in common if nothing else we all have this in common all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of god. This is no secret everyone is a sinner and no man is greater than any other. James 5:15-16 says "And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective." Hiding your sins is foolish and will only lead to suffering the fact you are a sinner is no secret we all know we are all sinners and no human is so wise or so holy they can judge us nor us them. All men are equal and while you should not take pride in your sinful nature there is no reason to try and hide your sins and carry the shame and guilt confess them to one another and pray for one another. This is why I choose the christian faith because in the eyes of God we are all the same and those lost in sin deserve my love and compassion as much as any one else and that I am no better then them. I try to focus on these facts everyday and pray I do better tomorrow knowing I will still fall short and no matter my good deeds I will remain as unworthy of god grace as everyone else. This is to me is the obvious truth so I accept it.

Again sorry for such a long post now you understand why I said to just email me directly to talk about theology. I think about it often and as a result I tend to be long winded.

[at] alandhopewell
Well if you have to get it perfect then by your own account you are going to hell because as I pointed out Jesus is a very poor translation of Yeshua which is the name Christ actually went by. So if praying to God using the wrong name doesn't work for you, you should ONLY pray to YHWH. This statement is clearly false though because God was not well known by this name until the time Moses and yet God had many followers before Moses. Also 2 Corinthians talks about inheriting the spirit of Christ and having an innate knowledge of right and wrong. If the details are as important as you think then I am afraid we are all doomed to hell in this case however I will still do my best to understand and server God not in hopes of making it to heaven but because it is the right thing to do Based on my own reason and common sense. (like said 2 Corinthians states I have this because of Christ) Read your bible and pray for wisdom God will give it to you.

WReck- the main point of the Witch of Endor account in Samuel was that Saul was unworthy, and had never truly given his heart to God; it also makes the point that we are NOT to consort with spirits. The apparition was not a demon, but the spirit of Samuel, called not by the witch (thus, her terror) but sent, this once, by God, to drive home Saul's folly.

WReck- There is one problem with the idea that "we all pray to the same God". The Bible teaches that the only way to the Father is through the Son, i.e. Having a saving relationship with Christ. If you do not have this, by default you worship Satan, as from Christ's own lips, when he informed the Pharisees that Satan was their father, as they had rejected Him. He was not speaking metaphorically. Those without Christ are God's creations, not his children. Those who pray without this relationship pray in vain; He ignores them. Those who die without this relationship go to Hell.

ROOK-

Actually, there are two "Judgement Days", the Lamb's Judgement, where those in Christ will be declared justified by having recieved Him as Lord and Saviour, and the White Throne Judgement, for those who must rely uopn themselves for salvation, as they have rejected Him.

As per the plan of salvation, those who have such a relationship with Christ will be declared righteous, as His righteousness covers us. As I understand, the whole exercise is designed to demonstrate that works cannot save, that man cannot, on his own, do anything to pay the sin debt.

There will be those at the judgement seat who will call upon the fact that they are "good people", and believe that to be sufficient. They will be in error.

Rook
Sorry You are right I should have reread it before posting my version of what Samuel was not as accurate as it should have been, however it does accurately make the point I wanted to which was that mediums can still see and even call up the spirits of the dead. As far as the Yeshua issue I explained that a bit more in my post to Vanessanda.

Vanessanda
You're right everyone is praying to the same god so a difference in the name used doesn't mean a whole lot. I have been to a lot of churches though that go on and on about how there is power in the name of Christ and even if you translate it as Rook was pointing out it would be Joshua not Jesus. My point is that the there is no power of any sort in the name and never was despite what some churches claim the power has always been in the individuals faith in God. There are actually accounts in the bible that highlight this point such as when priest that did not know God were casting out demons using only the name.
In short I do not mean to question any ones faith based on small details, however people who put their faith in small details may want to step back and look at the big picture or focus on what we are told in the bible are the important details Ecclesiastes (one of my favorite books) ends saying the whole duty of man is to serve God and follow his commandments. When Yeshua/Jesus is asked what the most important command is he states that 1st is to love God with all your heart and soul and 2nd to love your neighbor as your self. Those 2 above all else are the most important.
One of my personal beliefs (which I have already been informed will damn me to hell so no need to remind me) is that you should study the bible along side Buddhism mostly because Buddhism teaches a lot about not just accepting what you hear and to rely on real wisdom not superficial interpretation. Also I think in order to be faithful you must consider all possibilities and beliefs other wise I feel you are being stubborn instead of faithful. Most of this is just based on my own opinion and belief and should be taken as such. I do enjoy hearing other beliefs and opinions Listening to others is a great way to grow and learn. Sorry for rambling on so long again

Alan, thank you for answering my questions and although I may not agree, I think I'm beginning to understand where you're coming from. Forgive me for being a bit slow.

However, your answers have formed other questions in my mind.

"Who is 'all knowing' enough to judge whether the child was an angel or a demonic manifestation?" It seems to me that it didn't have time to give praise.

"Who was the 'all knowing' judge who decided that Jesus was who He was and not something else?" I understand that He gave praise, but others had been doing the same before Him.

Is it impossible for Demons to give praise in order to deceive?

I do enjoy your stories whether I agree or not.

With respect

WReck72, For us simple folk who haven't studied or understand the details, I don't think it matters how we pronounce the name. We are all talking about the same Christ.

Liken it to learners of English as a Second Language. We don't (shouldn't) pull them up for mispronouncing English words or translating their own cultural expressions into the English language, which don't make sense to a native English speaker. In fact new dictionaries are being written to include "mispronounciations and translated expressions".

So be it Jesus or be it Yeshua, what difference does it make?

WReck72,

I just may be an old fart... But I do like to have all my facts straight... So for the record it was King Saul who asked a witch to summon the Prophet Samuel (Samuel 28: 3-25)

Now a couple of more things to think about...

First...

In English the name Yeshua is extensively used by followers of Messianic Judaism as well as other Christian denominations who wish to use what they consider to be Jesus' Hebrew or Aramaic name.

If that's not enough I offer this information as well...

How "Yeshua" Became "Jesus"

The first letter in the name Yeshua ("Jesus") is the yod. Yod represents the "Y" sound in Hebrew. Many names in the Bible that begin with yod are mispronounced by English speakers because the yod in these names was transliterated in English Bibles with the letter "J" rather than "Y". This came about because in early English the letter "J" was pronounced the way we pronounce "Y" today. All proper names in the Old Testament were transliterated into English according to their Hebrew pronunciation, but when English pronunciation shifted to what we know today, these transliterations were not altered. Thus, such Hebrew place names as ye-ru-sha-LA-yim, ye-ri-HO, and yar-DEN have become known to us as Jerusalem, Jericho, and Jordan; and Hebrew personal names such as yo-NA, yi-SHAI, and ye-SHU-a have become known to us as Jonah, Jesse, and Jesus.

(The article continues here...http://jesusisajew.org/YESHUA.php)

Respectfully,

Rook

alandhopewell 1st things 1st I think that your post on your story getting a -5 and being knocked to hidden is pretty lame so I popped it back to -4 it's your story I think your thoughts on it are important and always valid as your thoughts if nothing else.
OK now for some tricky stuff it's been a while sense I have read through the bible like most people I have my favorite sections and I tend to stick to those when I feel like reading however there is a story in the bible about one of the kings loosing Gods favor and going to a witch of sorts to contact his ancestors because they always had Gods favor according to the bible this worked and his ancestor told him that he was going about things the wrong way and if he wanted to be in Gods good graces that he needs to go to God because that was the only way to have a good relationship with God and summoning his ancestors spirit went against what God says so obviously this plan wasn't going to work. It is not likely a witch could pull a soul out of heaven it is also unlikely a demon would give such sound advice. So as far as I know you're theory on souls is not 100% accurate. (side note this story in the bible pretty much shoots the whole idea of praying to saints all to hell.)
As for Jesus being who he said he was, this also is not as cut and dry as you might think mostly because Jesus never once in his life went by the name Jesus. His name was Yeshua the Ye coming from Yhwh (the name God gave as his own name) Yeshua translates to God saves or a much longer statement which Mary is told when she is told what to name her child. The only reason this really matters is because all the references to ask this is my name and so forth most likely mean ask this in faith of the fact God saves. Most people are still holding to that faith when preying in the name of Jesus but the fact of the matter is you could be praying in the name of carrot at this point because Jesus as I stated is not nor ever was Yeshua.
All of this rambling on about small details probably seem pretty pointless or that I am just trying to discredit your beliefs, and to a small degree that is true. What I really wanted to get at though is that the christian faith is in my opinion with out a doubt the best choice of faiths hands down no questions asked I have great respect for many other faiths but, in my opinion Christianity focuses more on a few details I think other faiths neglect. That being said the "Religion" being taught as Christianity deviates rather heavily from what the Bible actually teaches. Not just the Catholics either. I know this post might offend a lot of people it's not meant to I really just want Christians to take a closer look at their bibles to make sure what they are being taught follows faith taught in the bible or is in the bible at all cause I have come across tons of added info people site the bible as the source for but reading it front to back have found no mention of. Such as Heaven or Hell being the only 2 planes in the spirit world. Honestly Hell is really isn't as prevalent in the bible as it's made out to be.
Sorry I didn't mean to high jack the conversation but I do feel even from a christian stand point ghost are a valid explanation. If I did offend any one and they would like to discuss it with my please email me sense this is not actually a story about theology.

alandhopewell,

Well met. It seems that the question of Are all 'Ghosts' Demons has raised it's head here on your Experience. It also seems you are of the opinion that All Ghosts are Demons.

You stated "...souls do not get "lost" on their way to somewhere else, nor do they wander the earth; they go to Heaven if they have a saving relationship with Christ, or to Hell if they do not."

I have this question concerning your statement and this 'line of thinking'. My question is simply this...

If we are already 'Judged' based on our relationship with Christ when we pass on then why will we be called forth for our Final Judgement at the end of days? If our 'souls' have already been Judged and gone on to Either Heaven or Hell why does the Plan of Salvation include a 'Final Judgement' in which our 'Souls' are joined with our 'Perfected Bodies' so that we can stand before not only Heavenly Father but the entire Heavenly Host to be Judged and be either Called into Heaven or Cast into Hell?

Feel free to answer any/all of my questions as they are all basically the same question at Heart.

Respectfully,

Rook

This is your experience, you have brought the comments to this point, so please answer the question.

I think we all need to ask ourselves which aspect of our own religious beliefs we would forsake to fascilitate the paranormal? Most of us are aware of Alan's beliefs so why not just examine his tale with that in mind?

well, aland... Then if must be exactly as you say.
No room for discussion or debate- two roads to take in the afterlife only... And all hauntings in the history of man are demonic in nature.
This line of thought, while maybe not dangerous, is certainly disruptive to any advances being made in science vs the Paranormal.
I've said it before, be cautious of anyone who claims to have the absolute in regards to the paranormal/supernatural. Someone trying to "Case Closed" this subject is laughable.

To repeat, souls do not get "lost" on their way to somewhere else, nor do they wander the earth; they go to Heaven if they have a saving relationship with Christ, or to Hell if they do not.

VANESSANDA- To asnswer your first question, Jesus is God, the Son; He is all powerful, as is the Father, and the Holy Spirit. Nothing is impossible for Him.

as to your second question, angels always give praise to Christ Jesus when they manifest. Demons are fallen angels, part of the one third of the heavenly host thaty followed Lucifer into rebellion.