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Real Ghost Stories

Table Tipping

By Kindly_refrain
(16 stories) (196 posts) (the author is a senior adult)
Date: 2017-01-05
Country: Canada
Paranormal Category: Haunted Places

Over the last 15 years one of the fire halls I performed maintenance on had garnered a reputation as being haunted. There were strange swirling globes of light, odd sounds, smells of cooking, and even an ethereal figure of a woman, from the waist up only, that faded away after turning and looking at the observer.

About two years ago this fire hall was decommissioned and abandoned. I assisted in boarding it up. There were items of value yet to be removed for use in other buildings and I set about retrieving them. I was working in the garage part of the hall on a ladder when I heard a rumbling followed by a thud. Then again a rumbling, for about three seconds then a thud. This occurred several more times. This noise was coming through the wall, from the living quarters. I was the only person that was supposed to be in the building. My best guess was that a street person had broken in and was making the noise (why? I don't know). Being alone I did not investigate.

A fellow employee showed up twenty minutes later. I told him of the noise and together we scoured the living quarters but we found no living soul there. About to give up looking for the source of the sound, we came upon the sliding closet door in the dorm on a wall adjacent to the garage. I rolled it on its track and it made the same rumbling sound and when it came to a stop at the end, the same thud. I went to the garage and had my work mate slide the door to its end stop; it made the exact same rumble and thud as I had heard earlier when I was "alone" in the fire hall.

A few days later I told a friend of mine, "Bill" who was one of the fire fighters who had worked in that fire hall, what had happened. When he worked there he had experienced some of the weird happenings at this site. He had also heard unexplained noises in the same closet that I referred to earlier in this account. Bill is a self-described ghost magnet who claims to be able to see and communicate with ghosts. His many stories of ghostly occurrences have been corroborated by his wife and son.

Bill also told me of table tipping. I was not familiar with this up to that time. For the benefit of some who don't know what it is either, here is my explanation in a nut shell. I am sure there are variations on this topic but this is my sole experience with it.

A light table is sat around by four people. Finger tips are lightly placed on the table top. After the proper invocation, spirits are supposed to move, vibrate, knock, or tip the table in response to questions asked of the spirits by the people sitting around it. "Yes" answers, start more table moving, tipping or knocking action and "no" answers cause lessening of the table action.

Bill very much wanted to try a table tipping session at his old "haunt".

I had the keys.

One May evening, (with permission from my supervisor I might add) five of us went to the ex-fire hall in the early evening. Bill brought his table and invited two other people to the fire hall; I brought a friend of mine who was curious. Out of our group only Bill had ever done table tipping before.

We set up Bill's card table and four folding chairs in the dorm room that housed the closet with the self-moving door. There was no electricity at the hall so it was quite dark inside. After a very short time Bill announced that he felt the spirits were ready to speak. Four of us sat around the table while my friend, having brought his camera, was the official photographer.

We placed our finger tips lightly on the table. After only a few inviting words from Bill, the table started moving, vibrating, and gyrating within seconds. I laughed and scoffed, accusing Bill of moving the table. It was too dark to see if he was moving it but I did not really think it would start this way or this soon. No drawn out invocation, no waiting, no foul smells or cold spots, nothing like that. He insisted that it was the spirits and started asking questions of them.

The table moving increased and it even started rising and falling in little bumps. I scoffed all the more. Bill announced that there was too much negative energy from one quarter of the group. He turned on a flashlight and I was summarily dismissed from the table.

My friend was asked to sit in on the session instead of me and I was to become the photographer. The flashlight was turned off and once again the table started its auto-gyrations.

It was dark so I could see almost nothing but I had no trouble maneuvering in the mostly empty room. Yes and no questions were asked of the spirits and I could hear the satisfied responses of the group of four. I could also hear chairs scraping and the sound of banging table legs. All the while I was taking pictures. I even took some from floor level to show under the table, to make sure there was no trickery or other dishonest hank panky. The flash of the camera was intense but too brief, of course, for me to make out what was happening. I took exactly 100 photos.

During this time I felt nothing odd or creepy, the only thing that made this like a Hollywood depiction was a ferocious thunderstorm that rolled in and then out again before we were through.

After the session, with flashlights back on, we cleaned up the table and chairs as the four discussed the tremendous amount of activity from the table. We went to a coffee shop nearby and they told me that the table was even standing on one leg at times. I couldn't wait to see the pictures!

At home, I uploaded the pictures to my computer and was amazed by what I saw. Try as I might I could not find a way in which Bill might have orchestrated this in an underhanded way. At all times fingers remained on top of the table; no knees or anything else could be seen lifting the table from underneath. I was there during the brief set up. There were no strings or even places to hang them from. My friend, who accompanied me, said that he even pushed down on the risen table some and said that there was an odd spongey sort of resistance.

I am at a loss to explain the encounter in any other way but genuine. In most cases of spirit activity there is little evidence after the fact. In this case I have 100 photos. I will link to some of them for your perusal and enjoyment. They will be completely unretouched except that I must blot out the faces of the participants as they do not want public recognition.

Http://s1259.photobucket.com/user/Kindly_refrain/library/Table%20Tipping

I know that the nature of orbs is hotly debated; some consider them dust while others believe they are spirit beings. While orbs do not really figure into this account, there are orbs-a-plenty in many of the photographs (whatever they may be). Again, enjoy.

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Comments about this paranormal experience

The following comments are submitted by users of this site and are not official positions by yourghoststories.com. Please read our guidelines and the previous posts before posting. The author, Kindly_refrain, has the following expectation about your feedback: I will read the comments and participate in the discussion.

Zander (7 stories) (147 posts)

3 years ago (2022-03-14)

Fascinating! And beautifully written, as always. I'm wondering if you have posted an updated link to the photos? I was not able to get the link to work. I'll read all entries and replies carefully in case you have already. Thanks again for a great true tale!

Jazzisepic (3 stories) (20 posts)

8 years ago (2017-02-23)

Hey Kindly,
I liked this story a lot. I looked at the pictures and I cannot believe what I saw! Must of been creepy being there in person!

Kindly_refrain (16 stories) (196 posts)

8 years ago (2017-01-14)

Hi Tweed, the door has some prior history.

It is right beside where Bill used to sleep when he worked for the department. The guys used to play pranks on each other from time to time and more than once Bill heard what he thought was a person hiding in that closet, waiting for an opportunity to scare him. Bill would take the offensive and pull the door aside rapidly to expose and startle the person but there was never anyone in there.

As far as Reiki, I had some complementary Reiki sessions from a, now defunct, complimentary health centre. That practitioner told me that she did not touch her clients during a session since it was energy work and not physical manipulation. Incidentally, she was completely blind; her hands guided only by the emitted energy and body warmth. Maybe not touching is not standard.

During the session she told me to picture a white light entering my body at which point I thought to myself, "I don't care for white light, I would much rather have blue light". A second later she said, "I sense that you don't like white light and would prefer blue, that's fine". I started laughing.

After the session she told me that she had some psychic gifts and that she used to have a medium's practice and do parties etc.

Tweed (36 stories) (2529 posts)

8 years ago (2017-01-14)

Ladydarke, yeah he's a hypnotist. The staring thing was probably a mix of gauging if she was susceptible to suggestion, or maybe just for the drama of it. I remember that routine and there was a lot of verbal direction going on. That's one of the things I can't agree with Derren on, there isn't always someone around to lead or manipulate an experience. In the link he's more or less addressing the parlour games Manafon talked about.

What you said about Reiki and not touching people really made sense. I find the same, if I touch the person it doesn't seem to work as well, if at all. 😕 I've never done Reiki, but I figure it's similar to the energy experimenting I've played around with. I was surprised to learn Reiki teaches people to touch. I can't imagine that would work lol!

Kindly, when I read this I was actually more taken with the door you heard opening than the table tipping. I sort of forgot about it when I was commenting. But it seemed kind of cool, timing wise, that the door should become active. By what means I've no clue, but it seemed fitting.

Kindly_refrain (16 stories) (196 posts)

8 years ago (2017-01-13)

Cersed240, I believe I am on the same page with you. The truth is out there and I wish I knew what it was.

Cersed240 (2 stories) (26 posts)

8 years ago (2017-01-13)

Kindly_refrain.

Thanks for the reply. I have a small mechanical background too, mostly working on cars at home. Your analytically inclined responses aren't lost on me. I have some skeptic in me, but as in X-Files. I want to believe. Lol.

Thanks, Cerse.

Kindly_refrain (16 stories) (196 posts)

8 years ago (2017-01-12)

Hello Spockie, thank you for commenting on my story.

I sometimes wonder if I might attract things I don't really want in my life by "playing" with it. Most all of the things have just happened but the table tipping, I went to as a willing participant (although I was removed from the table).

I have now read all of your mill house stories, some are very interesting and some are quite scary. I was glad to read them.

By the way, I share your enjoyment of the original Star Trek series and gardening.

Spockie (8 stories) (203 posts)

8 years ago (2017-01-12)

My friends and I used to do table tapping years ago when I was a young teenager. We would ask yes and no questions and the table would tap twice for yes and once for no. It definitely worked. I would not recommend it, though. I learned pretty early on that fooling around with the supernatural is not a good thing and can have some unwanted consequences.

Kindly_refrain (16 stories) (196 posts)

8 years ago (2017-01-12)

Hello Indigo-Child, thank you for reading and commenting on my story. I'm glad you liked the attached pictures.

I have heard of the term Indigo child but not a crystal child. I will have to look up what these names mean unless you would like to tell us.

When you say that you see ghosts, do you mean in the photos I've attached or generally throughout your life?

Indigo-Child (2 posts)

8 years ago (2017-01-12)

I love that you put the pictures as a link with the story and indict think there could've any way to lift the table. I can also see ghosts because I am a indigo and crystal child. A physic told my mom that and she said it was a very unusual combination.

Kindly_refrain (16 stories) (196 posts)

8 years ago (2017-01-12)

Hi again ladydarke, that was quite a post.

I don't always read and reply so quickly but I am home from work with a lung infection which gives me time to read and post to my heart's content.

My choice of wording, where I say I blew a fuse, probably comes from two areas.

One is that I have several trades licenses. I am a Stationary engineer, a Gas Fitter, and a refrigeration operator. It is probably, though, my license as an Industrial Electrician that has the idea of blowing a fuse in a sensing circuit as part of my lexicon.

The second thing is, and I admire your perception, I did say, "long ago", meaning that I feel I should be able to sense these things and have the idea that I could have at one time but it really is beyond my recall. I wish I could now but I feel my "protestant consciousness" has made me suppress it. I do, as well, have some fear of seeing, feeling or contacting things that are less than savoury, from the other side.

Bill feels things often. I generalized when I wrote that we all could feel nothing in the air. Bill almost certainly did, as he claimed to know when the spirits where ready to communicate.

My trades training is indeed fact based and my daily implementation of them means that what ideas I have and things I think I see, especially when trouble shooting, have to stand up to the scrutiny of rigorous theory. Anything else is superstition.

When it comes to this field, however, my familiar measuring instruments are useless and the playing field is substantially altered. I really am out of my depth. That does not mean that real world tests do not apply, of course, and I will ask permission to apply them.

If Bill is willing, that would be great, if not, that may be telling in its own right.

By the way, in that Derren Brown video all of the subjects were professional dancers from the venue he was performing in. I suspect the clothing they were wearing reflected that. Darren Brown is a professional hypnotist, among other skills, and I suspect that this is what was happening in that video.

Thanks for you very thoughtful and perceptive comments.

Manafon1 (7 stories) (722 posts)

8 years ago (2017-01-12)

Ladydarke--It would have been great if an energy sensitive person was in the fire hall to gauge how intensely the atmosphere was changing. I consider myself quite sensitive to change in atmosphere (in what would be considered paranormal situations) and have experienced it just before and during several paranormal incidents. That "charge",can on occasion, be very intense. It can at times feel like a heavy blanket of static electricity.

What I find really fascinating about sensing charged air when something paranormal occurs is that it does suggest something is in the immediate physical space with the person or persons sensing it. However, with a telepathic apparition, for instance, there is nothing actually in the physical space in which the person or persons receiving the transmission occupy. In cases like this an "agent" (for the sake of argument the consciousness of a deceased person) sends a message to a "percipient", whose subconscious works with the sent message and creates a purely telepathic "apparitional drama".

On the few occasions I can recall experiencing what I believe was a telepathic transmission, I didn't sense the charged air that is so commonly reported in cases in which an entity is actually inhabiting the physical space that the person or persons perceiving it is. Your experiences with Reiki sound utterly fascinating and you seem to possess a very high level of sensitivity. It's too bad you weren't in that damn fire hall!

ladydarke (115 posts)

8 years ago (2017-01-12)

Kindly_refrain,

How interesting that you're one of the veritable platoon of empaths that frequent this site. It really seems that most of the regular members, the people with deep interest and sometimes a slew of stories, seem to fit somewhere somewhere on the ESP spectrum.

Your phrasing very much caught my ear when you said, "As far as sensitivity, it seems like I blew a fuse in that circuit long ago." Blew a fuse, huh? Hm. Sounds like at one point you did consider yourself much more sensitive then you are, but something overloaded you? Is there a story here, one as yet untold?

Manafon1,

I'm glad you know what I mean when I mention the feel because that charged air is so hard to describe. Whenever energy sensitivity comes up, I always bewail that there is no vocabulary for it and everything has to be described. However, I'm going to have to say that I really feel sensitivity falls along a spectrum and everybody's mileage varies.

You talk about a specific mood being necessary to pick up on energy, or a charged atmosphere around a haunting. I suppose that would be one level of sensitivity, but for others energy is always apparent simply as part of one's environment the same as climate is. Temperature, presence of wind, energy currents, check. At least, that's how it is for me and I'm sure others as well.

What I'm wishing for is somebody _really_ sensitive who would know regardless of other factors what the energy in the room was like during this event.

As far as that goes, I've taken a Reiki course and practice casually (not professionally and not all that often) which is I guess acting as a conduit for energy, pretty much the same idea as a medium channeling spirit energy to tip a table. With Reiki, I am aware of that energy. I feel it going through my hands, I feel it around my hands, I feel the energy field of the individual I'm working on. My palms heat up to a degree where it's uncomfortable. My husband can feel the heat around my hands, too. Note that I do not touch the Reiki recipient, you're supposed to, but I don't because for me that's like sticking hands in water and then you can't feel as much, whereas if I feel the edge of the energy field, like the skin of water, then I can pick up more from it. So depending on the size of their field, my hands may be six inches to a foot away from the body, so it's not body heat around my hands.

Anyway, my point is that when I'm channeling energy, I know it. Doesn't matter what the mood is or what distractions are going on: you can do Reiki and watch TV. I cannot help but be aware of feeling the energy.

So, for me, it's hard to grasp that Bill himself could channel the energy and not know and feel whether or not he's doing it. It'd be like picking up a pen and having it be invisible and intangible to you, yet the ink/table movement comes out. Everybody's different, of course, and Bill could be very sensitive in other ways without being energy sensitive. But this is why I wish an energy sensitive could be present. Looks like there isn't one handy, but I wish lol.

Tweed,

I watched the Derren Brown vid and it is language clean.

I thought it was pretty obvious in this case that he was manipulating the ideomotor effect because of his leading suggestions. First he tells everybody the table is going to move, why it would move here and not elsewhere thus altering expectation, then he pretty much says, "the table is moving" and it does. Then he says it's going round faster and it does. Then he sets up that it will go to a person - everybody knows and expects this result - so it does. He put enough people on the tiny lil' table that no one would feel they were actually moving the weight of the table.

I thought his patter sounded a lot like hypnotic script, actually. Is Darren Brown also a hypnotist?

His display was a lot different from Bill's with the movements of the table being much more explainable as being easily pushed.

There was one point where he picks Sarah from the audience then just pauses and stares into her face for a long moment. I wonder if that was showmanship like he was pretending he picked something up from her or if she just had spinach in her teeth?

Does he set a dress code for his shows? It was kind of creepy how the entire audience was wearing black and white.

And back to Kindly_Refrain,

I don't think Bill is pulling wool over your eyes. He seems to believe this is genuine spirit energy tipping the table.

In his case, I'm inclined to peg the ideomotor effect, which is why the best thing you could do would be to research the controls. I found mention of using the wax paper and also moving hands towards the middle of the table rather than the edge, both of which caused cessation of the tapping because they cancel out the ideomotor effect, thus kind of proving the ideomotor effect. Thus I think the best approach to either debunk or prove this is to control for ideomotor effect.

I've been reading your other stories again, and in Voices in the Factory you mentioned you had some kind of engineering position? I figure an engineering degree should give you a pretty solid background in experimental methodology and empiricism, and I would trust you to approach debunking in a thorough and valid way, accounting as best you could for bias and such. I really hope you and Bill can conduct some table tipping experiments using the controls.

Cheers

Kindly_refrain (16 stories) (196 posts)

8 years ago (2017-01-12)

Hi Tweed, I looked at the link and several more by quite a few people. I see what they are doing but that is not what happened that night. If it was fraudulent it was done differently. Again 3 of the four people were newbies and the table tipped towards them just as readily.

As well, the table should have fallen over at some of the angles it attained, especially on the slippery tile floors.

I like the skeptical replies and actually hope it will show me that it was a trick. I would love to perform it for Bill and watch his face as the magic comes apart. There is a piece of me that still believes that I've been had.

Tweed (36 stories) (2529 posts)

8 years ago (2017-01-12)

Hey Kindly fascinating account. I was instantly skeptical about 'Bill', but try as I might I can't fault those pics!

I was originally going to suggest many flat hands around a table could easily tip it and move it around, given the right atmosphere with some subliminal 'hints' from the host/Bill. But nope, all hands really are lightly placed!

Another skeptic for you to look into is Derren Brown. He's an illusionist and hardcore nonbeliever. He's done debunking routines on pretty much everything, table tipping/levitation/rotation, ouija boards, pendulum swinging, psychics, you name it. He knows his stuff and is passionate about educating everyone on psychic/paranormal frauds. So often times he'll show how an illusion is done. There are often 'rings' and/or wires underneath a table to pull off the illusion. However, these are obscured by a table cloth. There's no table cloth on Bill's table.
I recommend looking into Derren Brown's table routines. There's one where he gets audience members to move the table around the stage, similarly to how the table is behaving in your photos. However, I don't remember if he explains how it's done or not. I can't watch to check this link at the moment. But anyway, this might be useful, if not this link, just have a search around, he's probably explained it in another routine:
Https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj177SqjydA
(Warning he can be a bit of a swear bear so that vid may not be suitable for work!)

Anyway I hope that's useful in some way to validate Bill's table into the paranormal basket. I love Derren Brown, and I love his 'nonbelieverism', but ironically he often validates paranormal things for me by providing awesome debunking possibilities. Something that will forever amuse me! 😉

Kindly_refrain (16 stories) (196 posts)

8 years ago (2017-01-12)

Cersed240, skepticism is very healthy in this field, thanks for the questions.

The table was moving less than one half an inch in a gyration as if the force acting on the table top was pushing it a little from one side then moving to the next side and doing the same, round and round the table. There were also little bumps but not really knocks. This is my sense of it when I was at the table for my brief time. My friend says it was the same when he replaced me, after my expulsion.

The movements were far too minor to be useful in helping the table rise due to inertia.

I am glad you bring up the point, however, as I did not mention, in my account, that the table rose fairly slowly. It may have taken 30 seconds to a minute to go from flat to fully risen. Inertia was never really a factor.

Kindly_refrain (16 stories) (196 posts)

8 years ago (2017-01-12)

Manafon, your ideas are always most welcome, feel free to jump in anytime. As always you give food for thought.

It is interesting that you have and at other times have not felt a change in the air before an occurrence.

You may be correct that we may have felt a change in the air if we were not obscuring the sensation with banter, etc.

Cersed240 (2 stories) (26 posts)

8 years ago (2017-01-12)

Hello Kindly_refrain.

I hope you don't mind me asking. In what way did the table shake, or rock. Was it back and forth, side to side, or in a circle? Maybe a combination of the three? The reason I'm asking is maybe inertia came into play getting it up on to 1 or 2 legs. Not trying to be skeptical, but some of the other questions had led me to wonder. Ok. A little bit skeptical. But in a good way. 😁

Thanks.
Cerse.

Manafon1 (7 stories) (722 posts)

8 years ago (2017-01-11)

Kindly refrain--Hope you don't mind me jumping into your back and forth with ladydarke but I did want to comment on the feeling of the air being charged with electricity when some form of paranormal activity transpires. I have sensed that "charged" feeling several times before something that would be considered paranormal occurred. On more than one occasion I felt a charge in the air before a paranormal incident and had confirmation from multiple other people simultaneously. This usually happened when I was actively involved in investigating "haunted" locations with two separate paranormal investigation groups many years ago. However, I have had an equal number of incidents where there was absolutely no forewarning before something paranormal suddenly happened.

I think this often happens because the appearance of an apparition often occurs immediately upon awakening, or when reading or otherwise distracted. The disengagement from one's immediate surroundings seems not only conducive to interaction with the paranormal but also happens so unexpectedly that if there is an electricity in the air, it is overridden by the intense reaction of the person perceiving the sudden sound of a disembodied voice or an apparition. In your account of the table tipping experiment in the fire hall, the lighthearted and jokey banter might have made any charged atmosphere less obvious. In a situation such as the one you found yourself in, there were a lot of other emotions and distractions that were competing for everyone's attention.

My point is that the charged atmosphere may commonly be present but not always recognized because of how unexpectedly an incident may occur.

Kindly_refrain (16 stories) (196 posts)

8 years ago (2017-01-11)

ladydarke, please look for an email from me regarding some of this.

As far as sensitivity, it seems like I blew a fuse in that circuit long ago. I feel emotions of the living very well, although my wife might dispute that.

The night in question though, nobody seemed to feel that there was a buzz in the air.

The thunderstorm was a good one.

I will update you if Bill goes along with further exploits.

ladydarke (115 posts)

8 years ago (2017-01-11)

Kindly_refrain,

Thank you for the carefully detailed reply! I very much appreciate that you took the time to think through all my questions and answer so thoroughly.

You mean this took place on a dark and story night? How perfect! It must have been an evening of wonderfully creepy fun.

I was all like, "Noooooooo" when you said you didn't consider yourself very sensitive, because I really really wanted to hear how it felt from an energy sensitive. Don't suppose you're still in contact with the fella who was with you at Eldon House and his arm could be twisted into going along for further investigative sessions? (insert puppy eyes here)

Whether this is genuine or not, I'm fascinated. Here's hoping Bill agrees to the wax paper test. Please please give us an update if he does!

Kindly_refrain (16 stories) (196 posts)

8 years ago (2017-01-11)

Hello again ladydarke, I will ask Bill to have a burger with me at that Harvey's location. He is up for just about anything.

I do believe the tables are bolted down but I will check.

The other diners may look at us askance.

Kindly_refrain (16 stories) (196 posts)

8 years ago (2017-01-11)

roylynx, thanks for the explanation. For the record I took no offense at all, I was just not sure what you meant.

I appreciate you taking interest in my account. Feel free to comment all you like, I am not one of "those" kinds of people who look to be offended.

Kindly_refrain (16 stories) (196 posts)

8 years ago (2017-01-11)

Hello ladydarke, thank you for your interest.

I too am/was skeptical. If I was fooled, well shame on me for being gullible but I was looking for the fraud in all of this.

I will try to answer all of your questions and allay some doubts:

Bill did not know that my friend was going to bring his camera. When we asked to take pictures Bill did not seem to mind in the least.

I did read the article you linked to. In the article the table is much smaller than the one Bill was using and the legs of Bill's table were straight, not crossed under the table. The legs extend from the very edge of the table so to get any finger position outside of where the foot of the table contacts the floor is not possible.

Bill was wearing the soft loafers. There were no table knocks or any sense that the table was being kicked. It was just bumping and gyrating until it started to move on to one or two legs. Certainly his leg position, in any of the pictures I took, does not indicate he was in a position to do much kicking under the table, he could have kicked the leg I suppose.

There was no electricity on in the building so it was dark. I suppose we could have left a flashlight on but I am not sure why this was not done. If it was to hide sleight of hand I don't think the camera would have been welcome.

There were no sensations of energy in the air (except for the thunderstorm). The room felt like a room for all of the participants. Everyone agreed that there was no sense of special energy felt. Even at Eldon House there was no sense that anything was going to happen. When it did, however, it was full-on contact. I am, however, for better or worse, not sensitive to the energies of the other side in their more subtle forms. The person with me at Eldon House did feel like there was something in the air there, even hours before the occurrence he kept looking up the one stairwell saying it made him feel something was up there...

Understand that 3 of the four people at the table did not know what to expect. The table tipped toward two of them as well. My friend had the table tip so far toward him that he had to get his legs out of the way. The others had to stand to keep their hands on the table at times. When my friend "tested" the table when his side was in the air, by pushing on it, he said it felt strangely spongy.

I'll have to ask Bill if he would be game for putting waxed paper under the participants hands or is interested in the James Randi challenge.

Even afterward I was skeptical but when I got home the pictures put me more in line with thinking the occurrence was genuine.

ladydarke (115 posts)

8 years ago (2017-01-11)

Kindly_refrain,

Yeah, sorry, me again. I had another thought. Does the Harvey's have any tables that aren't fastened to the floor? If it does happen to have a couple regular free-standing tables, see if you can buy Bill lunch and have him repeat the event right there in Harvey's. Bring wax paper so you can try it with and without.

If the ghost (s) didn't stick around Harvey's and there's no result, that's one thing. But if he's not even willing to try the table-tapping with a restaurant table (ie one he didn't provide) and in full light rather than blackout conditions, I'd probably look at him stink-eyed. ^.~

roylynx (guest)

8 years ago (2017-01-11)

I meant because of the pictures it is so real and perhaps its real since you are there as well. I need to do more research about it to be about to talk or explain anything else lol
Well, basically I usually do not believe in Ouija Boards, Kokkuri-san, you know those spirit summoning activities, but I may just have to be more open minded, that's why I want to do more researches. I meant nothing bad against your story really, cheers!

Love from São Paulo
E.Lynx

ladydarke (115 posts)

8 years ago (2017-01-11)

Kindly_refrain,

These pictures are amazing. Thank you for sharing them. It really does look like everybody is resting just their fingertips very lightly on the table. They're certainly not gripping it in a way they could be lifting it, and legs do seem to be accounted for.

Do you know why the session had to be conducted in pitch darkness, flashlights off? I know a lot of people turn off the lights first in the Ouija stories, so maybe it was just for ambience, but the "cover of darkness" does make me wonder if something actually was being covered. In Bill's defense, you were randomly taking pictures with a flash, so he wouldn't be able to predict when it was or wasn't safe to kick the table or whatnot.

Could you identify which pair of feet belong to Bill? I ask because one gentleman seems to be wearing soft black loafers and it did occur to me that if the table were kicked from below, those shoes probably wouldn't make much of a sound, so I wondered if they were his.

It's so easy to be skeptical because this is a huge amount of purported spirit activity vented on demand, which is pretty unusual. Sure, people report this sort of stuff happening spontaneously - I recall one story from here about a schoolteacher who found all the chairs stacked in a pyramid. But for it to be emitted for such a long period on request is something else.

I went looking for information on table tipping, and found this interesting article --> https://youtubeskeptic.wordpress.com/2008/06/05/table-tipping/

It references controls used by personages such as Faraday and James Randi to test table tippers. For instance, it says James Randi has put wax paper under the hands of participants, so that any unconscious movements will result in slipping hands rather than a dancing table. Evidently, using these controls stops the movement of the table which is strong evidence for ideomotor effect.

Who is James Randi? He's a professional debunker who will offer one million dollars for proof of the paranormal - provided it can withstand his testing. So if Bill is certain spirits are involved, he might try to win himself a cool million. He'd have to pass where other table tippers failed, though.

James Randi does seem to be a cement hard skeptic. His testing methods are evidently grueling and precise, maybe even beyond the point of fair, but his whole point is that with a million dollars at stake he's looking for incontrovertible evidence.

What did it feel like in the room while this was going on? For me and many energy or spirit sensitive people, you can feel the electricity in the air and you know its for reals. Did you pick up anything like that? Did you get any sort of feel like you did in your Eldon House account, wherein it seems there was for sure a lot of energy in use and you definitely did feel the effects? Or did it just feel like a room? For me, personally and subjectively, I'd consider this to be the deciding evidence between spirit activity and ideomotor effect.

Dunno. Even if Bill isn't interested in the James Randi challenge, you might look up some of the other controls along with wax paper and see if Bill is willing to try them out.

Cheers

Kindly_refrain (16 stories) (196 posts)

8 years ago (2017-01-11)

Hi Roylynx, the table looks large, perhaps, but it is very light, maybe 5 kilos at the most.

The table tipped so far on one leg, at one point, that it could not possibly do this and still not fall, even with hands on top of it.

What did you mean when you said, "very strange and I kind of suspect this kind of activities usually."

Manafon1 (7 stories) (722 posts)

8 years ago (2017-01-11)

Argette--Table tipping has never disappeared completely and it makes sense it would have had a bit of revival post World War 1 with all the families dealing with the loss of their husbands, sons and daughters. Thanks for the link to that article.

There also remain pockets of those interested in Spiritualism but the largest following it had and the mass interest in table tipping (and knocking) was in the second half of the nineteenth century. Table tipping gatherings were all the rage for a number of decades!

Argette (guest)

8 years ago (2017-01-11)

Actually, there was a surge of spiritualism in the 20s:

Https://seanmunger.com/2014/03/16/spiritualism-the-1920s-obsession-with-the-dead/

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