Mysterious Dark Figure & Noises

V Yes, please ask her for updates or anything. And I don't see why someone voted down on my comment, there was a really dumb fight over something that I wouldn't be doing going on. I went through pages of it.

Hi, I'm the girl from this story so if you have any quetions or want to share your opinions talk to me 😁

Wow, so there's a fight over here. I read (more like skimmed) a lot of comments from the fight and I don't think it's really worth it. As someone said earlier, it would be terrible if this site turned in a battlefield with people fighting about religion and beliefs and advice given. That's the problem with these sites- sometimes people feel offended.
I don't think a teenager would be able to get holy waters and stuff for her house either so as much as I'd like to see how that works, I think I'll pass. Besides, although these kinds of things have happened a lot since we were first friends, they just aren't as frequent. They always happen (except for this time) when I'm with her but those I don't even count as experiences because she's never had proof. (I guess it's needless to say that I never saw what she saw that had to do with ghosts or had anything happen to me when I was with her. Although one day one of the things she saw I saw and it was that while we weren't looking an object on my bed had shifted to the whole other end of my bed.)

i try not to but the more we strive the better people we become right? Although I plan on taking your advice and not stressing over it also an update would be quite nice

Pen -

Lolz, I agree with you. I tend to do that from time to time. I think many people don't actually voice their opinions and that pushes me to do it more often.

Lolz, I agree an update would be fab

Aaron-

Don't stress too much for perfection. We all slip up from time to time. We are only human. 😉

Just going to come out and say it - I like it when we all *mostly* get along. I really do. I love that we can all discuss like this; It's like my classes from the year of Law School I did. Conversations, though arguing, provide insights to those around you, and allows you to better understand them.

I used to provoke arguments with my classmates just to see how they would react. It was interesting, needless to say. I love that no foul words have been slung. Or were slung. I love that we all attempted to help.

To the author: We neeeeeeeeed UPDATES! Stat!
I think some of us may end up popping a blood vessle out of sheer curiosity! 😭 😉

Penny❤

Jim
I definitely will do that it may take a little while though as I have a really messed up email and I can't check it often as I am very busy but I definitely will
MCP
You are bang on with that one it really gets to me how little people consider each others points of view although at times I must admit I can be guilty of the same thing its something I'm working on and I think if everyone else did the same and we all strive to be better nicer people the world would be a much better place

JimD-

Contact you for help for me? For what?
😕

I'm just looking for your Parish contact information, please 😁

Hey AAron;

I try to be down to earth. 23+ years on NYC streets taught me that. I've learned that even if you are objectively correct on the merits of an issue, you must couple this with charity. Without charity, all the other person recalls is the negativity, and blocks out your opinion.

Please email me at Dukes2352atAOL.com. MCP please do so also. I'm trying to offer help, but not in a preachy way or in an obnoxious way. These tend to turn people off.

Aaron-

I get what you're saying 😉

People get to caught up and they start to make their own judgments, they forget that it isn't really any of our right to judge. I know in the Christian religions, no one should but many do. In that example they should understand that the only person with the right to say "You're going to hell" or not is God. The only person that can judge a soul or a person or a heart should be God, but many of them have the odd notion that they can make that judgment call... People sometimes forget that we really are just people. We all have our own opinions and ways and I know I for one have no right to force it on another. If I'm asked I'm happy to talk, if I'm not I'm not offended.

I enjoy learning about other people and their beliefs just as much as anything else. People are unique. Their impressions, thoughts feelings, no two are the same. Why would anyone want to belittle it or wave it off simply because they don't agree? It's very enjoyable to talk, debate and discuss a wide variety of things so long as those involved remember to respect each other as individuals.

exactly what I was getting at expanding ones knowledge even if its about something you don't personally believe in is always a good thing help you to relate better as well I just like understanding people and religion is something that I just never could get my head around and the fanatics only make it worse especially when they are fanaticall about things that just don't make sense like getting upset about other peoples sexuality makes no sense to me I mean it doesn't affect them so why does it matter it just makes the world a darker place and there is no need for it you know not trying to start a debate about that just using it as an example

Aaron-

I agree; it's nice to be able to have a real debate now and then without the other person getting up in arms and attacking in a childish way. I rather like not being called nasty names lol. It's a good way to learn. One tends to work through things they otherwise hadn't considered when they do. It can be a great way to put things into perspective.

wow this is great debate I am loving reading this it really helps open your mind and understand where men (or women) of the cloth are comgin from which is something I have always had trouble with must say I can't wait for the forum and by the way Jim I realize I haven't posted much I'm just busy but reading the conversation it seems you are a really, how should I put this "down to earth?" sort of person its nice and quite refreshing to have such a detailed and in depth conversation about religion and beliefs would you mind if possibly continue this conversation with you over email as I said it is quite nice to be able to discuss these sort of things with a religious man without having it erupt into an arguement now keep in mind before you answer me that the conversation I have in mind will most likely deal with many aspects of religion and not just exorcisms and demons very interested in your point of view id love to hear from you brother

JimD-

It isn't the first time It's been implied someone thinks I am male. Perhaps my way of speaking/writing is less... Girly... More... Manly... Which is... Depressing lol.

JimD-
Oh ok, so really you aren't performing any sort of exorcism or driving out spirits/demons. You're just invoking the name of the Heavenly Father and like figures in order to let their own fear of what is Holy drive them away with the added aid of blessed object from the church.

That makes a much more sense.

A PM is a Privet Message (an E-mail). Please send me a PM with your parish name and the priest you confer with.

MCP;

As a layman, I bless nothing, except for my parents and my children. Church tradition teaches this is the only blessing a layperson may give. Email me, and I'll explain more in depth (I agree, not on the site), and also will suggest sereral books, which are terriffic. My success rate is 100%. Howevew, that does include partial successes, which account for slightly less than 50 % of these case. Some partial successes take time to become total successes. That's up to the person,i.e. The afflicted's actions, too, and ultimately to God. Forgetting Leo XII's instruction, which is still active, using holy water and the names of Jesus and Mary are often effective enough, thankfully. But, not always.

MCP;

Sorry sister (I always make this mistake! Lol) I think you have somewhat misunderstood what I do, and how I do it. That's AOK. What does PM stand for? I'm not a computer guy, as is obvious, I guess.

You are mistaken about my Pastor. Fr. Does charge us, but within very defined paramaters. All I suggest posters to do is to use Catholic Holy water, and use the names of Jesus and Mary. Also to receive the sacraments - If Catholic, obviously.

Believe me, five years of experience had taught me that the majority of these infestations can and in fact is halted - if one acts quickly and relatively early. The deeper the initial invitation or occult dabbling, the longer it'll take.

You can email me at Dukes2352atAOL.com. I am able to check email. I'd love to explain more, it's sort of tough on a web site, though.

Pen-
Lol, indeed it is 😁 I enjoy some good humor when there's a serious conversation.

Yes, a priest can do minor 'exorcisms' on homes, or blessings. Anything more then that they need permission for. Yes, they would want a very devout person with them. People with on the wary side of religion shouldn't attempt anything like that.

Exorcisms on people are VERY different. It takes time and a lot of investigation before it's really considered.

JimD-

No man of the cloth would tell his 'flock' to fight demons on their own. I've sited the context of his meaning in full in my last post (You'll find it in quotes...). Please also note that statement earlier quoted by me that states that directly addressing a demon is a Solemn Exorcism regardless of how short, small, or hidden the way it is done. It is not recommended by anyone of the cloth to 'fight' demons on your own without the aid of a priest. In any other circumstance you are advised to seek spiritual leadership from the church and aid from your priest.

I'd like to know the parish you belong to and the name of the Priest that gives you permission to conduct blessings and 'exorcisms' of any kind in the name of the church without being a man of the cloth.

Please PM me the information so they can better explain the situation to me. I must be missing something, or perhaps you've presented something in a way that I've misinterpreted because this does not add up to me. No offence intended and not implying you're lying but perhaps they'll have a better way of explaining it.

Feel free to continue this conversation in PM, note that I would prefer it. This is going to take a turn that is not appropriate for this site. (No not negatively, simply religious in a way that I don't feel this site isn't suited for)

Ps - Don't be startled when you discover when you navigate to my profile that you took for granted my gender and assumed me a 'Brother'. I am indeed a 'Sister'...

MCP - I try. I like being the class clown, if you will. Silliness is always needed. I know they don't, and it's disappointing. I know all about catholosism - my dad is one, I used to be one, and I grew up in that school system. I don't really have anything against it, except for the fact that there are far too many contradictions for my liking, that's all.

I think a regular Priest could do exorcisms, if they properly knew how, and if they had another strongly-religious person with them. But that could just be my opinion. In many of the "true" exorcisms, there have been two priests present; there are a great deal of facts behing the Exorcist movies, from the diaries of the priests who were present. I say that quallifies as two people strong in their faiths.

But again, those were people. The Amittyville Exorcism would be a better one to look at, I think, but I don't remember all the details on that one. All I know is that it took 30 Exorcisms to help Robbie Mannheim to be rid of the demon possessing him. (That's the guy that the original Exorcism story is based off of) We all know what I'll be doing today - looking into this house-exorcism business to fix the debate!

Penny ❤

"Jim - I agree. Three very different people offered three very different ways of help, advice, and theories. I still stand by saying we need an update from the author, but who knows - some just forget about their stories, and ignore them. "

Pen-
I would be very sad if Believer didn't update eventually on the friends findings. But sadly enough, a lot of people don't.

MCP;

Ah - no. We'll just disagree, I guess. All those quotes apply, as I twice wrote, to people, and NOT places. I work with my pastor's / priest's permission, and I keep him appraised. See my previous posts. I don't do exorcisms of people. In NYS, these Bishops don't even want to discuss the subject. After Fr. LeBarr (NY Archdiocese) passed away, no replacement was made, despite a glaring need.

The minor order of exorcist was eliminated in post Vatican II ordinations. They say the new rite of ordination does include it, though. I know priests aren't trained in demonology in the post Vatican II seminaries. Fr. Mendoza is, I'm sure, a learned priest. I'v e dealt with Fr. Amorith, who is Rome's chief exorcist, and Fr. Merchado. I gave a lecture, and Fr. Merchado was present.

Pope Loe XIII's permission is still valid, licit, not overturned by Benedict XVI, and 100% in force and controling, as is the Gospel. With respect, I feel theologically you are in error. Let's agree to disagree, ok?

Penny;

I totally agree. Where is the feerdback / upodate. MCP and I can debate theology (after 4 years in the seminary, I still remember some), but what happened with this case? I've gotten tons of private emails, which I can't reproduce - it would be a betrayal of confidence. If the poster could update us publicly, it'd be great.

Pen-

😆 You're too much 😳

It's an interesting topic to debate that's all.

Religiously speaking (not trying to convince you or anything Pen, I completely and totally respect your choice of belief, just explaining myself a bit)
A Priest would be able to do it. And would if there was a demon and it was of dire need and they couldn't get through he proper channels. If it is endangering or harming people, he would have to get the ok from a higher up. Blessing a home to rid it of any evil spirits or things of that like is very different from performing a actual exorcism.

From my understanding/impressions...
Blessing a house is one thing, commanding a demon is whole other ball game. A Priest, regardless of which, is not going to want a normal person (so to speak) to conduct that which only he is suppose to do. If a Priest goes to a home that may or may not have a demon within it, they don't watch while the home owner conducts the blessing. They wouldn't let his friend do it for him and watch, he'd want to do it himself. Demons are dangerous. And Priests go through extensive training and trials so to speak of faith to be able to do what they do. They can hear confession, not the guy sitting next to you in Church. See where I'm going with this? If anyone could bless a home, christen a child, marry a couple on the religious level, exorcise a demon, or absolve us in the name of Christ why would we have priests? As such I would find it odd that a priest would recommend it to another person rather then telling the person to seek out religious guidance should they want it in their area if he can't reach them. If he can, I would find it very puzzling if he wasn't leading and instead letting another not of the cloth. Are you sure he said a Priest went with him when he performed his exorcisms?

Regardless, I'm looking forward to the forums. It'll be a lot of fun to learn more about everyone and the many different perspectives. 😐

And MCP - what are you, some kind of creeper? GET OUT OF MY HEAAAAAAAAD! Haha, kidding. I'm sleep deprived today. Too much World of Warcraft, methinks. Stupid raids... *hits head on desk*

Granny - I love reading your posts, by the way. They make me smile lots.

Penny 😉

MCP - I love how passionate you get about proving a point. I love the points you bring up. He has told me that he brings a priest with him when he goes on his cases, which and whom, I suppose, should be the one leading the exorcisms.

And I don't know about you, but my Bishop is a real piece of work. He outlaws casino gambling for catholic school fundraisers becuse it could promote gambling addictions, but he still demands wine at the Bishop's dinner, and lots of it. He's usually smashed by the time he leaves; can't the consumption of wine lead to being an alcoholic? It's the same ball-park, right? Ah well.

You and I can just agree to disagree with Jim for now. And await those wonderful forums that Martin's looking in to. 😆 We can wait that long to debate, methinks. *pats*

Penny ❤

Martin-

That sounds great. I'd enjoy being able to learn more about the different beliefs and impressions people get without having to annoy posters with it. 😁

Pen-
I'll know where to find you all the time lol. ❤

ZZsgranny-

It seems only right that when it comes to religious belief that one should always agree to disagree. But I think it's healthy for people to debate and discuss. You evolve and learn more about yourself, belief, and the people around you by doing such. It saddens me to know that many people turn it into argument and get... Less then pleasant about their delivery. There is no need to call names, or directly insult a person's intelligence. It's childish. However, I can understand some people getting heated when someone refuses to let things go for instance when one persons says "I don't think it's evil" and another says "well it is but whatever" they aren't saying "I disagree." They are saying by implication, "You're wrong but I don't want to deal with you." It's rude. 😐

JimD-

Ya no, on a person or a place the two types are applicable. Neither of which should be performed alone at any time.
"All idle and curious questioning of the demon should be avoided, and the prayers and aspirations should be read with great faith, humility, and fervor, and with a consciousness of power and authority." - you may want to make sure who you tell to attempt this is Devout... A diabolical infestation rather then a diabolical possession can be potentially just as dangerous. A imprecatory exorcism or a solemn exorcism is any sort of exorcism that involves direct commands or 'the casting out' of demons in a 'aggressive' manor speaking 'directly' to the demon on 'your own behalf' rather then a deprecatory exorcism were you pray to God, Jesus, the Virgin Mary, or St Michael and so on and they in turn command the entity for you and you do not address or 'have at' the demon in any way yourself.

However Pope Leo XIII did say that the Prayer Against Satan and the Rebellious Angels published by Pope Leo XIII should be said as a "method to curb the power of the devil and prevent him from doing harm." "Its use is recommended whenever action of the devil is suspected, causing malice in men, violent temptations and even storms and various calamities."

However...

"It could be used as a solemn exorcism, to expel the devil. It would then be said by a priest, in the name of the Church and only with the Bishop's permission."

"For the most part, the local ordinary who appoints the exorcist should be the diocesan bishop, which implies that the vicar general and Episcopal vicar should not do it without a special mandate, except in a case of need when the bishop cannot be reached.
The exorcist, whether appointed to the stable office of exorcist or ad actum, is to fulfill this ministry under the direction of the diocesan bishop."

From the Commentary of the Code of Canon Law
Canon 1172 - (1) No one can perform exorcisms legitimately upon the possessed unless he has obtained special express permission from the local ordinary. (2) The local ordinary is to give this permission only to a presbyter who has piety, knowledge, prudence, and integrity of life.

"Q: Can anyone be an exorcist?

Father Mendoza Pantoja: No. According to the Gospel, Christ enriched his apostles with charismatic gifts when he sent them to evangelize.

In Matthew 10:1 it says: "And he called to him his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every infirmity." See also Matthew 16:17-18.
With that authority, it corresponds to bishops, successors of the apostles, to exercise this ministry of expelling demons. But, according to Canon 1172, they can designate, to exercise this ministry in a stable manner or for a special case, a "pious, learned, prudent priest with integrity of life." This is true for diabolic possessions and, therefore, for exorcism itself, also called solemn exorcism.
But every priest through his ordination participates in the priesthood of Christ and, with him, has the mission to liberate the faithful from all obsessions, oppressions or demonic influences, with deprecating prayers of intercession and supplication, with evangelization and administration of the sacraments, primarily penance and the Eucharist.
Similarly, all priests are exorcists in regard to the pastoral endeavor of liberation within their mission to evangelize, and this is true, by the command of Christ; he does not need to be designated to carry out so-called minor exorcism. Lay people cannot be exorcists"

"There is imprecatory exorcism, which is a direct command to the devil, something which might be called a solemn exorcism no matter how short or improvised or discreet." This is applicable no matter what or whom is being exorcised. And there is a "deprecatory exorcism were you pray to God, Jesus, the Virgin Mary, or St Michael and so on and they, in your stead, command the entity for you" which anyone can do, as it is asking for protection and for them to do the 'casting out' for you.

Martin - YAY! I look forward to it. It should be entertaining for all involved, needless to say.

Jim - I agree. Three very different people offered three very different ways of help, advice, and theories. I still stand by saying we need an update from the author, but who knows - some just forget about their stories, and ignore them. 😢

Penny ❤

Hi Granny;

I ended up retiring from NYC, as a Captain. No reason I haven't been on, just fixing up the house. I'm teaching college p/t in the fall, 2010 semester. Otherwise, I'm running (just 3 miles a day, no records there) and taking care of parents; mom, is better, but still a struggle. She's 82.

I hope the poster's home quiets down. Often, trial baloons are floated to ascertain her response, which will determine if more or less occurs in the future. But, I've already said my peace, and the exchange, mostly, was civil and enlightening. When good people try to help, something good has to come of it.