Comments for Grandad's Carved Bust: Page 1

Biblio, your back! I definitely have some questions. You mentioned the elaborate headscarf the woman was wearing. Did the scarf look like a tribal pattern or something more modern? If it was a tribal pattern, did you ever do any research to find similar patterns?

Did your grandfather know the age of the bust or where it originated? If you knew the area it came from originally it would help to understand if maybe the bust itself had "power" and if some practioners could put powers in the bust.

Can you tell this story really caught my attention? I've even theorized some guy purposely lost the domino game just to get rid of the bust.

😆

OK! Back of the classroom: any questions? Mimi, was your hand raised? What did you want to know?

Biblio, I really hope you come back to the story. I have some more questions about the bust and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Please don't leave us dangling!
😢

Biblio, I really enjoyed reading this story. Is it possible the swirling was something trying to take form?

Please remove all of my comments and events, I just got my answer

msforgetmenott - please move that question/comment to one of your stories if you would like to start a new topic of conversation. I'm going to remove it from this one.

Okay, it seems as if this story has created a bit of controversy. I was hoping everyone would try and get back to the story, not the recent comments but that doesn't appear to have happened. So, further comments that are not related to the story will be deleted. Hurt feelings and other emotions don't need to be fed.

Thank you.

hello everyone,

For some strange reason I felt compelled, drawn back to this discussion. I have re read most of what has gone on and I think that I am the one that may have sparked all this off by quoting what a well known philosopher said about people thinking too much and not letting divine intervention or intuition guiding them along the path of creativity. It never dawned on me until right now, but, one of our greatest thinkers and minds solved his problems in that manner... Eureka, the moment, get it. A great scientific mind stopped thinking to solve his quandary. Having said that if you like get out your bag of stones, throw some my way and let, s put this to rest. I am largely an intuitive soul and I suppose I was overtly pushing my own beliefs in a way. Let, s all meet up on another intriguing subject.
😊 😊 😊

Hehe, I just logged on this site and can't help myself about what I have to write. It's mainly for Bibilo... I think and is regarding moon:)

First of all Moon (and scientists have to agree) influences life on Earth (waters) so, that's the fact, and if it influences water, and as bodies consist mainly of it, it may also influence workings of human brains and minds. I myself (not interested in topic previously) discovered that I'm easier irritated when full moon (and worked it out).

Check also Lunar effect and Andy Parr Sussex police and the rise in crimes regarding to lunar cycles.

If it comes to scientists: they simply discover certain rules of our matrix, I personally believe this rules aren't eternal at all and fluctuating, for I regard Life rather 'collective dream'of particles of God we are. (Well, you don't have to think so anyways)

So basically what scientists 'mistake' often is from my point of view is, that they work in some 'set' that they regard hardcore facts forgetting, that it's just the way humans experience world (and even not all humans sometimes) through human 'lenses' of perception and from certain level of developement...

Didn't know quite where to post this because this discussion's taking place on about three separate stories. I would post this on one of my own stories but I don't want this comment to get swallowed up and lost in heavy traffic, should any occur between now and when ya'll are next online.

Mmkay, unfortunately I was super busy today and had no time to get on and comment, though I did read some from this morning. But commenting on my phone is never going to happen because I'd just stuff it up and it would be unreadable. Jan, I'm so, soo, so sorry this upset you so much and you should really blame me because I was typing without thinking and therefore started this. If you read those comments of mine they really read very stupidly.
In an effort to lighten the mood, I'd like to share what happened 'round ours when the YGS storm hit.

Picture the scene:
I checked in on YGS before calling it a day. My initial reaction to reading Biblio's response was
'oh God, this is like Dad at Christmas lunch'.
I must have looked bemused because my husband asked what I was up. He lurks on here sometimes. I gestured to the screen, half laughing, and asked:
"You seen this sh**?"
He read a snippet over my shoulder and mocked:
"Whoah, you got detention".
Then we started talking about the concept of time travel, because of one of the paragraphs. This went on for a while before I set upon replying. We have a history of typing inappropriate responses to text messages and forum posts etc, which we show each other for giggles ONLY but never actually send. In line with this I typed in the YGS comment field:
'Do you want a tampon?😊'
The topic of which emoticon worked best was most hilarious.

I hope that in reading this you've been able to see a funnier side to an unfortunate situation. I was able to understand what was happening straight away. But even if I didn't there still would have been silly giggles involved.
That said, neither of us would EVER joke about someone being upset. I'm very sorry for starting this debacle and I am not laughing or joking about anything you've opened up about.
Another peaceful way to look at this is that Biblio felt comfortable enough to let rip, which is actually a good thing, seriously! Because that's what people who respect each other do occasionally. It means they know the world isn't going to end after they've shown another part of themselves. I'm confident that once the dust settles things will return back to normal and you and Biblio will be conversing better than ever before. It's happening all ready, see? You're both expressing how you feel honestly and respectfully. I can only see this as a positive step.

How much do I sound like a freaking social worker right about now?
It is soooo late and I need my beauty sleep.
G'night beautiful people!

URGENT MESSAGE: msforgetmenott

Jan! I had no intention of reducing anyone to tears, least of all you!

Dreamer and Tweed shared an exchange which APPEARED to be dismissive of science and of scientists. Since we tend to take both subjective responses and objective analyses here on YGS, I was shocked! Objective analysis is the very foundation of all scientific endeavors. I was over-tired when I read their exchange, and I was affronted by the tone which I mis-perceived as being borderline rude. I did not have your comments/conversation in mind when I wrote the screed defending scientists; I always encourage banter which is slightly off-topic as part of a natural conversation both in the classroom and in real life situations. I find that I learn more when taking a step back from the main topic and considering it from the perspective of the new tangent. However, I have 5 rules in my classroom, rules #2 and #3 of my classroom are 2) No *ad hominem* attacks and 3) No *Loshon Hora.* Rule two, as I'm sure you know, is a rule of public discourse in the Roman Senate meaning you can critique someone's idea, but you cannot be rude to the man; rule three comes from a Jewish text, "Pirkei Avot," or "The Ethics of the Fathers," which instructs people not to spread rumors and gossip about individuals, groups, professions, etc. I have a rather strident voice, in person and in writing, I know; one thing I do not tolerate is rudeness. Rule #5, by the way, is "Apologize for failing to treat others with respect." This is why I posted my apologetic statement this morning. I not only thought I'd probably crossed a line in trying to defend professionals I believed were being derided, but that I also may have misunderstood the situation completely. I took note of Tweed's clarification of her statement (she was quoting a TV program which I used to watch, but from a more recent episode which I have not seen). This was a crucial part of the miscommunication.

To the best of my knowledge, Jan, you had no reason to take my pontificating personally, because you had not derided science, scientists, or scientific endeavor in any way.

I most sincerely apologise for making you cry. That is very upsetting to me; if it is any comfort at all, my wife is lecturing me on the subject "you made an older lady cry over the internet? How thoughtless were you?" (As if I needed to feel even more guilty...)

Perhaps I'm more defensive of the sciences than others expect of English teachers, but I have a several good reasons for it. The best one is that there have been two people in my life who have been unfailingly decent to me for as long as I have know them: my wife & a girl I'll refer to as "C." After C got her Ph.D., she took a job in the labs at Vanderbilt University, so we don't meet anywhere near as often as we used to; however, we do stay in touch over facebook and with Christmas cards, etc. She is using her intellect and creativity to work on curing Fragile-X Syndrome. When I think about that fact, I sometimes wonder if teaching writing skills to students is anywhere near as productive a choice in life. I know that I'm not a scientist, and that my passion is literature, but even on one of her bad days, C was trying to make the world a better place for humanity. I suspect she's been more inspirational to me than I've acknowledged.

Jan, I am sorry that I offended you.
I'm doubly sorry that I made you cry.
-Biblio.

Biblio, you must be a blast in class!

Hi Tweed. So much to say, so little time.

Jan, Biblio was being Biblio, and look at his follow-up. 😁 Being able to come back and rethink something (and add to it!) is so much better than anyone with delusions of perfection.

Thank you Biblio! I have needed you guys again! 😊

Best!
Hecate ❤

Bibliothecarious,

I guess I tend to be overly sensitive, but I felt hurt and then shamed as I read you were somehow offended by the direction of our writing statements on your thread. Described as banter, by you. In tears, I read and read repeatedly your very long, off topic response. Forgive me if I am wrong, but as I have read all of the YGS and threads during this past six months, I had thought this banter was allowed and encouraged.
I believe you and I have done the very same thing on my threads, more than once.
You have burst my bubble, as I have so enjoyed YGS this Summer, and all of the banter.
Please be sure, I will never make the mistake of entering words on your thread again, this said in tears.
Jan

Thank God I'm the only one who thought I over-reacted*!

I re-thought my response this morning, and I realized that I'd shifted gears into "lecture mode" when I'd written the response. (Admittedly, it was "capsule lecture" not "full-onslaught lecture," but it wasn't entirely necessary!)

Full Moons notes:
1. Check the etymologies on "Lunacy," "mooning about," "mooncalf," etc.
2. There are -apparently- Ancient Assyrian references to the moon affecting the behavior of men "touched by the gods" (i.e.: insane or disturbed). -I haven't tracked down this source, yet.
3. If "moon cycles in relation to mood swings" is simply a placebo effect, the population of the psych ward who are aware of the belief ALSO would be subject to the placebo effect. Similarly, people who are aware they've been shot (non-fatal wounding) fall down because that's what happens in movies and tv shows, but people running/fleeing in a surge of adrenaline don't feel the wound, so they keep going! Learned behaviors are learned behaviors, including placebo effects, yawning, mimicry, "playing possum," etc. Perhaps the funding for the psych ward should be spent on overtime for the accountants who go in to the ward to explain to the patients that they are only as insane/unbalanced as usual, and they are to ignore the moonlight which is traditionally associated with romance and werewolves (not romance *with* werewolves, as lycanthropy is a certifiable mental condition which IS affected by the sufferer's obsession with the moon).
4. Lunar cycles, in American research, don't affect birthing cycles either in a 5-year Arizona study http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15970864. However, the French study of 29,385,552 births over 37 years found "Conclusion: An analysis of 37 years of data demonstrated a small but statistically significant influence of the lunar cycle on deliveries"-Arthur Charpentier, Ph.D., https://perso.univ-rennes1.fr/arthur.charpentier/naissance.pdf).

Tweed: It's good to know I'm not the only watcher of QI on here! However, I'm pretty sure that Dara O'Briain said it during his stand up "This is the Show."

-Biblio.

*You know it's bad when an Agnostic thanks an individual whose existence he questions...

hi tweed and everyone else,
I am glad to see that we are having a spirited and healthy
Discussion about this.
Like I said, we all have differing levels of feeling and interpreting energy. Myself, I am largely intuitive and receive a great deal through my dreams. Think that is why my tag is "dreamer01". Others can see and interact with spirits, or, pick up an object and feel.
I don, t think that it really matters how you get these feelings or information, it is just the way you do it or are.
Science is a wonderful thing, it has kept me alive when I would have been pushing up daisies years ago, but, I am not scientifically inclined that much. I leave that largely up to those that feel that passion.
To set the record straight no, I do not work in a hospital but I did in two different ones for the first 14 years. Now I am in an aged care facility that I have been in for 11 years. We have a secure unit there, basically they all have dementia to varying degrees and I can catergorily say that the full moon DOES increase the level of behaviours of these people and make them more violent. It is not a place I like at he best of times. Seeing these tortured souls suffer and linger on and the distress of their famalies is probably the worst part of it.

Biblio, I tend to condense what I say to avoid the comments of a recent story changing direction in a counter-productive way. However, upon reading back what I said, the abridged version didn't encapsulate what I intended and I wounded up sounding pretty blonde. I *was* expressing frustration at the 'follow the money' culture science and scientists find themselves in.
What Dreamer said about intuition struck a chord as I related it to a family member who works in the ER of a hospital. She and her co-workers find that on a full moon the psych patients become dangerous and the ER experiences an influx of drug overdoses and psych related emergencies. Despite over ten years of overwhelming evidence and requests for a boost in security personnel during a full moon, the hospital's financial decision makers refuse to believe this. This family member is a dedicated non-believer atheist and doesn't relate the moon cycles with anything paranormal. When the hospital staff researched moon cycles in relation to mood swings, in order to present evidence to their superiors to support their request, they found there was no hard evidence recorded. Instead they found the opposite, the general opinion held was that it was nothing but a placebo effect. Needless to say this infuriated all the hospital staff who had nothing but their own experiences and intuition to report.
I got my first taste of 'follow the money' culture when my art teacher, who I became friends with, told me about her son who was working in medical science. He found out very quickly that research only goes as far as finance will allow. He also found out the hard way about the sad importance of protecting your intellectual property. I was a teenager when she would tell me all these horror stories about her son's hardships. It's absolutely infuriating and it makes me question humanity at times.
Prof Brian Cox said once of NASA funding that it's a drop in the ocean compared to money spent annually on dog grooming. Pretty depressing statistics.

I may be wrong about this, but I think Dreamer works in a hospital too. So my 'in passing' comment to her was more of an inarticulate salute to her and jab at the more narrow minded, short sighted, members of the scientific community who spoil it for the rest. Sorry for any misunderstandings, but I'm gland they occurred because your reply was interesting reading! At the end of the day if it wasn't for science, we'd all be extinct.

Dara O'Brian is great. Pretty sure I remember that quote from QI, I think it was.

Hahaha and I realised I'd quoted good old South Park again. There was an episode set in the future where science ruled supreme and the new blasphemy was 'science' or 'oh my science'. I use this saying now, and it slipped out in my last comment, never mind!

Ironically I've just come from some pretty heavy reading about a theory on Melatonin levels (yes I'm quite interested in science). My mind is a bit foggy right now and I hope this made some sense. I checked in on YGS, saw these comments and thought: 'Oh Christ*, I better reply to that'.

*Proper use of blasphemy. 😉

PS: (Hey Hecate!)

Hecate:

I'm not sure it was Tunisia per se, but that's because Grandad didn't get more specific than "North Africa" and "desert." He only discussed the heat, the boredom, and betting on dung beetles placed on opposite sides of a single sphere of camel dung; he never mentioned the action-adventure stuff that young boys believe because of books, comics, and movies. It's only as I've gotten older that I've realized his army experiences probably did more damage than he was willing to confront...

As for my jeremiad on science, you're welcome. I find the sciences fascinating (Biology & Botany, Astrophysics & Quantum Physics, Psychology & Anthropology, Chemistry, Geology, Meteorology, etc., etc.). Science has always been hampered by economics and by human error (look up what Arthur C. Clarke called "the most expensive hyphen in history." -- I think it was in the "Mariner" program).

I'm slightly envious of people who can "feel" rocks and crystals; I don't remember ever having gotten a field/resonance from one. Of course, I'm usually limited to feeling the resonance of mature trees and emotionally/spiritually active homes.

It's late, and I suspect I'm beginning to ramble...

G'night, all!
-Biblio.

Biblio, your teak woman got stuck in my head. You mentioned your grandfather had done his stint in Tunisia. I wonder if your teak woman was perhaps stolen by someone during similar military service. There might be a whole other side to her having a kind of animosity toward those with similar energy to the pillagers. Just a thought as I was trying to meditate and couldn't get her out of my head easily. So, here I sit writing.

I feel rocks a LOT, using them in healing. Obsidian, Tweed. Ooooh. I have a large rainbow obsidian pilar and small green obsidian wand. They are very, well, expansive, is a good word. Fast cooled lava, like you said, Tweed. No crystaline structure like rocks and minerals. It is difficult to find the black variety.

I feel the trees, like many of you. I am not as sensitive to objects. I had mentioned the movie "The Red Violin" to Tweed, where there is energy in an instrument. I do not want to tell too much as I encourage people watch it. I have reached a point where a local coffee shop wants to see my art. I am reticent feeling like my pieces are my children. I do not necessarily talk to them, but I feel like I birthed them. I love seeing them, knowing I can love them but do not have to raise them for 21 years. LOL Anyway, I feel we leave our energy everywhere we go, sometimes intentionally but usually not. Places. Things, our well loved things. We can send it out, too, which is what I do when healing. I hope she found a regal place.

Can't wait for more of your stories, Biblio. 😊

Hecate

Thank you Biblio! I have been away and just logged on to read your wonderful summary of the pressures of being in science. Lynn McTaggart has written of many more brave scientists who have essentially sacrificed their careers to test "other" in several books, "The Field", "The Intention Experiment" and "The Bond".

As you know, I am a trained scientist. I teach statistics and research methods to that next generation you reference. But I also challenge my students to think beyond what many will not openly explore for fear of that damage you so aptly describe likely for their careers. In my classes, I have started asking how many people are themselves psychic or is someone they know psychic. I make it vague so they are not committing openly. Usually, in a class of 100, 4-5 hands will go up along with mine. This semester, it was me and two others out of about 150 students sitting there who raised their hands. So, we are talking about studying something that is not only extremely variable across people, it is quite uncommon when we do find it.

Stanford University has an alternative medicine unit. University of Arizona has a Center for Consciousness that hosts regular conferences with some more alternative themes.

Thank you for your summary. I went into science partly because I wanted to better understand the things we discuss here on YGS. I can only discuss these things with very close friends, and only peripherally in the classroom. However, I ALWAYS try to leave my students with an open mind... 😊

Best,
Hecate

This is odd; it feels like I'm intruding on a conversation which is taking place in response to my story!

I'm enjoying the banter -don't get me wrong- but I have a serious issue with the generalization that "scientists" are stuck in regimented thinking BECAUSE they're scientists. They are bright people trapped by a stupid social set-up which can yank their funding at any time!

Scientists MUST have a lot of imagination: they need to imagine what CAN be created, then envision the steps necessary to accomplish it. Investigative scientists have to guess what MAY be causing an event, then speculate a methodology to test only one aspect of the phenomenon; when that test is validated, they can use that evidence to justify the expense of pursuing the next verifiable aspect of the phenomenon.

These experimental steps are undertaken with great care and caution, often because of the necessary expenses, which are paid by a chemical corporation or manufacturing giant who needs to show a profit to investors/stockholders every three months. This financially-controlled atmosphere of showing returns on investment is not helped by accountants, managers, and foremen who are terrified of being fired as a "cost cutting" measure.

In the case of Universities, the scientists are paid very badly compared to their "sellout" corporate counterparts who need to feed their families. While conducting their experimental work, they are supposed to teach 3 or 4 classes per semester (often, at large universities they get their grad students to cover for them during critical experiments), publish four or five original articles (or 2-3 articles and a book) per year, conduct experiments and analyses without stretching the department's budget, try to make tenure by jumping though nigh-impossible hoops with additional paperwork and committee work, present lectures to fellow experts at conferences while avoiding asserting anything improbable/unsubstantiated which will be questioned publicly and relayed to the University administration.

In each of these cases, a new generation of bright thinkers with revolutionary ideas threatens their job security by graduating EVERY May.

Successful scientists are cautious in their publicly-expressed thinking because they have avoided both paranoia and ridicule throughout their careers, and they'd like to keep *having* careers.

Add to this mix of intellectuals the typical office politics, unpleasant rivalries, theft of intellectual property, fear that being wrong about anything will cost too much money, having your hard work co-opted by a supervisor desperate to appear successful, years of work sabotaged by an underfunded colleague, being beaten to the punch by the publication of your best ideas by some Polish grad student in Krakow who's never even heard of you, and you'll sympathise a little with scientists who don't want to be accused of mis-spending.

The general public tend to be highly-critical of the way governments spend money (i.e.: "THAT is how you're spending MY taxes?" as though the Gov't is not entitled to tax anyone who isn't completely satisfied). Very few public universities are willing to spend money on paranormal research: the only two I know are Edinburgh, which has a Chair of Parapsychology in the Psych Department and the KPU (look it up, it's fascinating!), and Adelaide's Psych Department has the Anomalistic Psychology Research Unit which specialises in researching paranormal phenomena while avoiding calling attention to psychic abilities, ghost encounters, and the paranormal. I just discovered that there's a third public university, the University of Amsterdam, which has a rather nebulous-sounding approach to the research, "the Anomalous Cognition Section." Private Universities are more willing to spend money on researching the supernatural IF they have a substantial endowment which can withstand a few years of public ridicule; secretly they'd each love to be the first to 'prove' the paranormal exists in a quantifiable manner, but no-one wants to be caught looking for the evidence in the wrong places.

Add these to all of the above factors:
1. Scientists imagine that they can earn a living being scientists (that's an act of faith akin to wanting to be a professional artist).
2. While I know only a dozen or so scientists personally, they've been Orthodox Jews, Roman Catholics, and Pentecostal Protestants; only one was a drunken cynic, but that's because much of the worst-case scenario stuff I listed above happened to him in one way or another.
3. Ada, Countess Lovelace, the daughter of Lord Byron, created the first computer program to test that a computer was functioning about 150 years before there was a computer to test the program.
4. Nikola Tesla speculated that the ionosphere was there 50 years or so before anyone could prove it, because he was bouncing signals of off it.
5. Until 2 years ago, "Dark Matter" was pure speculation; now it's speculation with one apparent piece of evidence to justify the claim.
6. To quote one of my favorite Irishmen, Dara O'Briain: "People say to me, 'well, science doesn't know everything.' Science *knows* that; that's why it's *Science!*"

Ahem. I'll put the soap-box away, now. Yes, I agree with Shakespeare's Hamlet, in that "there are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,/ Than are dreamt of in your philosophy" (I.v.168-169). I know that some scientists are guilty of rigidity of thinking, and their pompous condescension can be exasperating in the extreme. However, as individuals with paranormal experiences, even abilities, we should encourage scientists to pursue our data for the betterment of the humanity.

One scientist I know, "Dr. M.," is a physicist. He lost his father when he was very young. At the age of 12, he read H. G. Wells' "The Time Machine" and began to wonder what it would really take to travel through time to get to know his father better. A few years ago, as a tenured (I believe) member of the Physics Department of UConn, "Dr. M." attended a physics conference and put his entire career on the line presenting a paper on the feasibility of time travel. He noticed that the most prominent cynic -and sarcastic debunker of time travel ideas- had chosen a seat dead center of in row three, and he was set up to take notes as the lecture proceeded, in order to counter any claims with established principles when humiliating the presenter. The presentation got underway, and my acquaintance began with something called Einstein's Linear Equations; then he explained how he'd discovered that they were not only linear equations, but also that if the equations were written horizontally on a strip of paper and wound around in a spiral, they also could work vertically. This opens the possibility that a single particle -or a wave of sound or light- could be sent backward through time without violating the laws of physics. No person would go back in time, and nothing would ever travel backward further than the very first time the fully-functional apparatus is activated, but the possibility of communication with the past (without violating the laws of physics) was there. At the end of the presentation, everyone held their breaths, waiting for the customary invective from the cynic to undermine an otherwise plausible-sounding lecture. The silence held for a few minutes, the critic arose (to the delight of those self-satisfied audience members expecting a fireworks show) and he spoke up: "Dr. M., I cannot find fault with your math." He picked up his briefcase and left.

Yes, the above anecdote was told to me by Dr. M. Who shopped in the bookstore where I worked in the evenings. He spent much of his career trying to hide the fact that he was attempting to reconcile the desire for an apparently 'paranormal' experience with everything he has learned about physics and quantum physics, but he is one of many out in the field of science who, after decades of slaving away to make tenure and to establish a national reputation amongst his colleagues, is now in a position to suggest that what has been labelled 'paranormal' is yet another extension of the human experience.

Please, please, please do not condescend to scientists and their methods, when the limiting factor in exploration is usually business 'suits' and 'beancounters.' If you can't resist the temptation to heap scorn on imaginative, creative, dedicated explorers of ideas, DON'T do it on a thread for one of my stories.

Thanks,
-Biblio.

Hi tweed,
Those cement steps are not gone, they are still there on a small road near the New Hampshire boarder from Ma. My son now grown had hunted them down, remembering the day. They are next to the woods about 20 feet from the road. And yes bizarre is correct. As I recall the woods were clean with no undergrowth, cared for. Every once in a while we talk about them, it is one of many things we found on our day trips.
Jan

Val, you're not missing your top drawer lol, I can relate to this in a way because you remind me of my husband who does the same. He makes weird and wonderful creatures while talking to them. He feels they have their own personality and are capable of talking back in their own way too. We test this out for fun sometimes, to see if we both 'feel' the same thing about something, could be anything, not limited to things he creates. So no, this doesn't sound balmy at all. 😊

Dreamer, bummer about the stone! I just love what that guru was talking about, completely agree with whoever said that. Oh, science. While hard proof through predictable outcomes and controlled testing is needed for, say, medical research. To turn around and use those same guidelines for something 'other' strikes me as self sabotaging. I really wonder if sometimes people don't want there to be anything 'other' than what they've been taught.

Jan those stairs sound bizarre. Wonder why they were there. 😕

this is a community comprised of many different personalities so as far as I am concerned everyone is welcome to join in. Even if your ideas and theories sound so out there one of them may actually have a sound basis so bring, em on guys and gals.

I have been mulling over the idea of past and present energies as stand alone entities or a brew of both and how do we quantify or validate our reactions/ feelings to these energies.

A quote from a spiritual guru came to mind that I think is valid.
he said that scientists have trouble solving things because they do not know how to stop thinking i.e. Being more intuitive.
trusting intuition is I think one part of the puzzle. We have differing levels of understanding and feeling energy. Some may even have psychic flashbacks of a forgotten time or event. In that case maybe it could be even proven.

just a few of my over caffeinated rambligs. 😊

Biblio,

I bow to you! As expected, a job well done, now that you have started, please do not stop. We all know you have much to tell.

Tweed and Dreamer, may I please join in this conversation. I well understand why this lovely teak form, may well have carried a human emotion, of hate or fear, but how, one will never know. I have felt a wave of feeling from objects when selling on EBay. We often went to auctions and previews, and when picking up an item of interest, I felt if this item could talk. If you read my tray event, in that case it did.
I own two items, that while belonging to family in the past, they carried a image for me, almost as if they were telling me something. We placed a family mantel clock in the attic, I just did not like the message I got while looking at or dusting it. I just felt uncomfortable.
This can carry over to a cellar hole or land, at times.
Years ago we took a day trip on roads not familiar to us, when we saw at the roadside a front step going nowhere. Really! We stopped and walked up to where it set, into the roadside hill, it had been there sometime, many years, as grass grew about it. Yet at the top there was woods. No house or any dent or indication there ever was one. How it got there a mystery. I thought to be funny and walked up the steps intending to knock on the imaginary door. However, in walking down, I broke into real tears, I only knew sadness, and could not get into the car quick enough. As far as I know, it still remains there.
I do agree, items can hold feeling from the past.
Jan

valkricry,
Glad you bought this idea to my attention of objects
Holding past energies and histories.
All of a sudden I had a flash back of picking up some
Thing once and feeling very sad when I did.
I think it was in an antique store some where and now other
Such memories are starting to surface.
past and present energies mixing together sounds plausible but as you said how do we measure this without absolute proof.
I was in one of those mystical/religious stores once and picked up a stone that warmed my hand instantly and sent a warm wave up my arm. I should have purchased it but instead put it down, 5 minutes later I could not find it, damn!

Tweed,
At the risk of sounding like my top drawer is missing, I believe that some objects DO talk if we just listen. It isn't speech in the strict sense, with vocalization, but more through perceived impressions, vibrations. It's hard to explain, but those who have the gift of psychometry can often 'pick up' on the object's history through touch. I think everyone has this ability to some degree, it's why some objects just feel 'wrong' or 'bad' to us. The stronger the ability the more details to the object's story. A few can even 'read' deeper than the 'recent' history of the object. Let's pick on Princess Teak; someone with the ability might pick up on Bilio's Granddad, someone who's ability was more developed might even be able to delve back to when she was carved. Let's say, by a sailor who picked up the wood in Africa and spent the long years at sea carving her. They could possibly pick up on his emotions as he carved her. Perhaps she was someone he loved and had to leave behind. But here's the catch, proving whether a person's reading is right or wrong. Lol

Aww, so glad to see others naming and talking to things.😊 We do this too. I'm sure if we listened carefully some things probably talk back lol.

Oh.My. Gosh. Too funny. A body in the doorway, eh? 😆 😆 Argh... You must meet 50 characters to post.

Val,
I also talk with my art projects as I create, build, or draw them. On one occasion, building a revolving bookcase we'd received as a Christmas present took so long to construct (a piece was missing, and that added a week to the 4-hr project), and took up so much floorspace in the living room, that -eight years later- we still refer to it as "Hubert."

(One eavesdropping coworker got quite a surprise when I phoned my wife, and we discussed moving Hubert into another room as he was blocking part of the dining room doorway; she thought we had a dead body in the house, like Hitchcock's "The Trouble with Harry" or Kesselring's "Arsenic and Old Lace.")

😉
-Biblio

Val,
As you can see from my response to Tweed, your line of thinking has helped me to generate an entirely new perspective on the events in Grandad's flat. I'd always presumed that she was the negative factor in the equation, but having discovered more information about Grandad (later, in my teens), it makes far more sense that he was the source of the negative energy, and she -not sure about being a princess, but she was definitely regal in her bearing- reacted very badly to being isolated from the ebb and flow of normal human interactions, and being trapped in the bedroom of an inordinately selfish and small-minded man.
Thanks for your help,
-Biblio.

Tweed:
The reason your diction caught my attention is that I'd never really given much thought to the idea of a "portable vortex." Vortices (in my understanding) are temporary, recurring, or constant; I'm thinking not only of paranormal portals for entities/spirits, but also ley lines, telluric currents, etc. As I ponder this, it would make sense that a temporary portal would require a conjunction of objects, events, people, and intentions --perhaps the bust was more akin to a keystone in creating the vortex out of the ambient negative energy than anything else. I'd never considered that she (I don't think of her as "it," which made editing the rough draft of my account damn confusing!) might be a positive force reacting harshly against my negative Grandad. Interesting idea. I've described a bare-bones version of Grandad, who wasn't without his redeeming qualities, but he also had some character traits worse than I feel comfortable sharing/alleging without any corroborating evidence.
(How weird is that? I have no objection to describing my feelings as a child and recounting parts of a supernatural narrative I gleaned from both hearing the tale and eavesdropping the more disturbing details, yet I have an aversion to demonstrating a potentially-provable, incontrovertible piece of family lore...)
Thanks, Tweed; you've given me much to mull over.
-Biblio

Sorry, I just noticed (again) that you had already stated you had no idea what your uncle did with her.

Biblio,
Since we've no idea how old that bust may have been, there's no telling what she may have 'witnessed'. There's an old saying, "If these walls could talk", I believe it applies to objects as well, especially those of porous or stone nature. They seem to absorb the energies around them really well.
Perhaps, Princess Teak (yes, I've taken the liberty of naming her. Lol Hope you don't mind.) was use to receiving a lot of attention. I know that, for myself, when I create I tend to talk to the object. Not to creep anyone out, but I made many dolls, of many kinds. Mostly soft sculptured babies. I would also sew made to order outfits for dolls. Once, I was hired to recreate a bridal gown for a Barbie doll - which ended up costing around $300, even though the doll was supplied by them! Sorry, strayed a bit there, but my point is I would talk to my creations. I find I do it with my digital art as well. Although none of them have ever talked back to me in the strict sense, it did make them more 'real' to me. So I can easily imagine, whom ever carved our Princess talking with her. Then, as time passed and she traded hands, always being on display. Perhaps others talked to her also, but assuredly they talked of her. Then she arrives at anti-social Granddad's, who puts her in a lonely room. She's not visited and admired much there. That could be where your 'look at me' feeling came from, his too. Alright, perhaps I am imbuing Princess Teak with a bit too much human frailty lol. But, I've had only a couple of hours sleep and the coffee hasn't kicked in yet.
I am curious though, do we know what became of her?

Biblio, yes the downhill gradient, drawing in other energy did make sense.
As your Granddad didn't sound like the easiest man to get along with, I wondered if the energy, whatever the woman may have picked up over time, was somehow reacting with the energy in your Granddad's place.
As I read this, especially how you described unease having your back to her, it reminded me of hearing stories of black obsidian from my teens. (It's a healing crystal/gemstone) According to some of the locals where I grew up, mostly hippies/progressive thinkers, owning a black obsidian was not for the faint hearted. Only one of the new age stores, at that time, stocked it as large book end sized rocks for 'popular demand' reasons. This shop owner had countless returns of black obsidian. I can only assume most people who bought and later returned it were interested in testing their strength against its power.
It was said to absorb negative energies from an environment and 'reflect the truth' back to anyone who owned it. People who'd owned one spoke of trippy meditation, dread, anxiety, bad dreams, cold spots, the usual suspects for a negative presence. But who these people were, their reasons for owning one, what they did with it etc probably played a part in how it affected them.
I just looked up what the heck black obsidian is, according to the interwebs it's lava. Well that's a far cry from teak. Nevertheless how you described the presence of the teak woman reminded me of those black obsidian tales of woe from my teens and influenced my use of 'vortex'. I couldn't help but wonder if your Granddad, through no fault of his own, both stimulated and aggravated whatever the woman was already harbouring simply by being a grouch. Then innocently placing her in the room where he slept, with whatever illness he may have had as Val points out, all created the perfect storm.

Thanks for all the positive feedback, guys!

As with all great music, paintings, and sculptures, a well-conceived and well-executed artwork should convey the passion of the artist for the process of creating a unique and compelling piece. As I look back, now, I wonder if one of the intermediate owners of the bust had used it in an unpleasant ritual, or had placed it in a prominent position in a room where a lot of negative emotions and conflicts occurred. I cannot think that an artist of skill would be hate-filled while carving the delicate details of this elegant female form. These ideas didn't really crystalize in my head until I saw Tweed's use of the word "vortex" to describe the swirling phenomenon, and Miracles' suggestion that the initial energy may have come from the teak.

On occasion, I have had distinct "resonance" reactions to various trees or wooden furniture in the past, but I'd not related the sturdy, deep rhythms radiating from deciduous trees to the bust's energy. Thanks to Miracles' suggestion, reviewing the feelings in each of those cases didn't feel like the sinister, dense wavelengths from the bust which seemed, oddly, to create a downhill gradient, drawing in other energy (God, I hope that makes sense!). That careful deliberation gave me pause to consider the word "vortex" (which should have occurred to me at some point in the 30 years since this happened!) and how such a phenomenon could have become associated with the carving. I am now inclined to believe that the piece was abused or mistreated in some way by a prior owner, and was not created with malicious intent.

Silentwings, I did not know that! However, for somewhat self-evident reasons, I've tended to avoid similar works of art. I'm sure it's just a paranoid after-effect of the events, but I -and several family members- did have the feelings before Grandad's experience. There are probably 100, 000 harmless sculptures for every one that has an unsettling effect; however, I'm always a bit more cautious than necessary around such statues, busts, and carvings (and porcelain dolls, too, but I've NO justifiable reason for that peculiar bias).

Caz, you have no idea how odd the image of seems to me, as Grandad usually travelled at as moderate shuffle with both feet on the ground unless a staircase was involved. The idea of a skinny, 70-year-old, selfish, foul-tempered, foul-mouthed, arthritic, nicotine addict in his grey-and-maroon striped pyjamas crawling backwards is simultaneously amusing and pitiful.

Caz, you have no idea how tempting it is to retype that last paragraph. 😉

Val, you've got a great point, as I clearly had assumed cause-and-effect being the figure causing Grandad's illness. As his symptoms disappeared with the removal of the object, I do still think that was the case; however, I should not have over-looked the possibility that the illness was causing the hallucinatory effect. It's amazing how many blind-spots we have when recounting our own experiences! Thanks for making me stop and reconsider that moment!

As for all the other questions/comments, thus far; I have no clue how Grandad perceived the altered expression on the bust, merely that "she didn't look the same," and that he'd considered it worth mentioning in his conversations with his children afterward. He lived for another decade before being diagnosed with widespread systemic cancer, and being given an overly-optimistic 3 weeks to live (turned out to be more like 12 days). He took any other details of his experience with him.

I agree with Tweed. True works of art, whether sculptures, paintings, or instruments have their own energy. I feel this is also true of any hand crafted item.
Your poor granddad. Even if I try and put this in the context of an hallucination due to his illness, it's still creepy.

Hi, Bibilo... Just want to say that the antiques must have beautiful carving... I love antiques but those have facial feature gives me goosebumps... May be some spiit was attached with that... Awesome story and enjoyed reading it ❤

Sorry you got that twice guys... I actually only posted it once, but my pc is acting up at the moment! As a matter of fact, it closed itself down immediately I posted! Eek!

Biblio...the bust was obviously a beautiful and well crafted piece of art, but I can't help thinking it was evil! Whether that came from the artist or the subject... I have no idea, but the fact that nobody in your family felt comfortable in it's presence and your granddad became ill, might suggest it wasn't good! The thought of your granddad crawling out the room backwards and struggling to close the door after it had 'spoken' to him, sends shivers down my spine! Thank goodness your uncle got rid of it and not a moment too soon I'd say! Your story was beautifully written and thank you for sharing it with us!

Biblio...the bust was obviously a beautiful and well crafted piece of art, but I can't help thinking it was evil! Whether that came from the artist or the subject... I have no idea, but the fact that nobody in your family felt comfortable in it's presence and your granddad became ill, might suggest it wasn't good! The thought of your granddad crawling out the room backwards and struggling to close the door after it had 'spoken' to him, sends shivers down my spine! Thank goodness your uncle got rid of it and not a moment too soon I'd say! Your story was beautifully written and thank you for sharing it with us!

It sounds like a very beautiful carving, I wish that we knew what she said to your grandad or what happened to her when she was removed. You did a beautiful job of describing her appearance. This may sound odd but most carvings of both African women and Cherokee there is little to no detail for the eyes which is disappointing because they usually have very intriguing eyes, Maybe it's because they are so hard to recreate or maybe a completely different reason. It's a great story 😊

Miracles I was going to bring up lovingly crafted homes too but I forgot. So your comment high fived mine! 😊

Biblio - got sidetracked with work (Heaven forbid 😉) and forgot I wanted to comment on your story.

I am a firm believer that wood holds energy and tells a story, if we only listen. And as Tweed mentioned, I also a firm believer that someone can create something and pour their heart into it, leaving behind their energy. Like a carpenter who builds a home: you have those who build homes because they are paid to, and then you have those who put their heart into the home they are building for someone else. The difference shows.

I'm torn on what I think caused this statue to react the way it did. It almost seemed to have a life of its own. So, possessed/haunted object; energy from her creator; energy from the teak itself? I'm sure there are other possibilities.

Tweed - my apologies for repeating what you have already said. I didn't read your comment until I was proofing mine.

Holy crap, it's a story from Biblio!

I really love how you describe her features and I feel like I've 'seen' her. Or at least can picture what you mean, with the kind of delicate bone structure a lot of African women have.

A friend of mine and I have discussions about the craftsmanship of musical instruments. The idea that a person's passion pours into what they're making and becomes part of the object, part of its existence. This combined with the energy in the materials used, the location it's made, all persons involved in creating it and on and on. That the 'object' houses its own energy resulting from a conglomeration of all people and materials gone into making it. With musicians adding their own heart and sole as time goes on. I feel a lot of instruments are sensitive and secretive creatures who open up to those who know how to speak to them.

So I can't help but see the craftsmanship in this woman through this filter. Someone must have loved her a lot to create such a delicate piece. Even if she was done from a likeness in a painting or straight from the imagination. Someone cared enough to put the work in and, dare I say it, bring her to life. (I know so cheesy, and it's not even Halloween yet)

Your uncle turning up and declaring the room 'a little chilly' really made me laugh. Your poor Granddad!
Jeesh I'd love to know what she said, not to mention the weird vortex of it all, what the heck?!
That's some *ahem* bad juju.

Do you know what her expression changed to?