Comments for Tour Of Jerusalem And Bethlehem: Page 1

Rook I must say that your belief seemed to cause quite a debate lol, my personal veiws slightly differ from yours but I did think it was a interesting and worth reading.

newhunter,

If you look the comments section we are using is for one of my experiences and I set this conversation up here so we could 'wax' a bit more religious as many people will use Biblical Quotes to make their points... For either side of the debate. So no offence taken, at least not from me.

I have broken it down (my beliefs anyway), sans religion, if you wish to read about that please follow this link to YGS sister site for Psychics...

Http://www.psychic-experiences.com/real-psychic-story.php?story=6281

I wonder if that would get published here on this site? MODS... What do you say? If I were to submit the story from that link here on YGS would it stand a chance of being published? Then I'd have a real 'go to' for some of these conversations.

Respectfully,

Rook

Rook I hope that you do not take my verses as trying to push the Bible onto anyone but they are just my way of backing my beliefs on this topic. If I have offended anyone I apologize as that is not my point.

To further the belief of demons being seperate from entities there are several bible versus that lead to the belief that demons are fallen angels.

"How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
13 For you have said in your heart:
'I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.'" Isaiah 14:12-14

Then Revelations 12:4 implies that one-third of the angels fell with Lucifer which could explain how demons are fallen angels which would mean they are not spirits.

mamachong,

Glad I brought a smile to your face. I wondered if the first part of that comment would be understood the way I meant it.

The funny thing is I know the Bible not because I'm a 'Thumper' but because I have been 'bashed' by them and decided to read and try to understand where they were coming from... I still haven't figured that out, but as a result I've managed to read the King James Version of the Holy Bible from beginning to end 4 times and I've read the Books from my Church through 5 times (had a lot of time while on deployments in the Navy).

Quote a single verse from Scripture and it will support pretty much what ever point of view you have chosen it for... Read it in CONTEXT with the verse (s) before/after it and it takes on a whole new meaning.

Respectfully,

Rook

mamachong,

Agreed, and there is were we begin to see a difference between 'Demons' and Ghosts. The Demon is the Stronger because 'it' has never known the limitations of the flesh...

I can state that better, A Demon can use its abilities more effectively here in the physical realm and because of this there is a greater potential for physical harm... But what it wants most is to posses a human body...

Respectfully,

Rook

Lol, you had me for a minute! Rolling in laughter. At least your open minded. Gotta love that. You must know the bible well. I don't, sad to say, cause I'm a sad bible thumper.

One more thing, just from what I have experienced, seen or heard, I have yet to be hurt from a ghost, demon on the other hand, have inflicted some type of bodily harm. Demons, at least from what I understand, have portrayed more strength then a ghost. Thats not to say a ghost can't inflict pain or otherwise.

mamachong,

I can't stand that attitude... How dare you ask questions you must lack faith... That is all propaganda and 'control'. There are Bible verses that even encourage us to ask questions...

James 1:5

5) If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

And

Matthew 7: 7-8

7) Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8) For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Which is also stated in...

Luke 11: 9-10

9) And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10) For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

It seems that message was important enough it needed repeating. That to me 'means' something. Just saying...

Respectfully,

Rook

Hi Rook,
I don't think every entity is a demon. Jesus was walking on the water and his fishermen saw him, thought he was a ghost. One reference to ghosts. Another paragraph in revelation, voices of the dead cried out to him, how much longer before you avenge our blood? I don't know the exact verses, but they are there. Jesus casted out demons from a herd of pigs. To me the bible kept the two topics seperated from each other. I think it would have combined the two together if they were one in the same.

I once had a ex boyfriend tell me I hated Jesus and God because I didn't understand the verses and asked what they meant. What I really hate, when I ask something to be explained and I'm told that I hate that particular thing.

newhunter,

Not confusing in the least and thank you for your inputs.

Along those lines... Why is a Final Resurrection needed if our Spirit goes either to Heaven or Hell upon death? If that is truly the case then we have been Judged already and do not need to be called forth for another one. Just saying. 😉

It seems that we three are kind of on the same page, I would love to hear from those who actually feel that any 'Ghostly' activity is Demonic in nature and why they do so.

Respectfully,

Rook

I haven't done much reading on non human entities but I do think there is some of that out there, for sure, there is so much literature and accounts out there it would be silly not to think there is some truth to at least some of it.

To be honest Rook I personally feel that spirits and demons are complete opposite type of paranormal entities I do not feel they are one and the same

Rook as far as an answer to your question I will do my best to answer it as understandable as possible, as I can be confusing at times. I will state this from my religious standpoint and I hope that I don't offend anyone.

'Are all Spirits Demons? Why or Why Not?'

I would state that No not all spirits are demons. The most basic answer being that in some of the Christian religions worshippers observe the Holy Trinity. I do not see any way to validate worshipping a demon, IF in fact the statement above were answered yes. There also lies the following scripture

49 "Master," said John, "we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us."

50 "Do not stop him," Jesus said, "for whoever is not against you is for you."

Cross references:
Luke 9:49: S Lk 5:5
Luke 9:50: Mt 12:30; Lk 11:23

I am no Theologist and know that verses can be taken differently from different people but this shows to me demons oppose Jesus and the Holy Trinity has the Holy Spirit, thus in my opinion you can not have demons opposing the Holy Spirit and have all spirits be demons. I hope I wasn't confusing

DragonStorm80,

Agreed, Ghosts are the spirits of Humans that have passed on... And they can be good or bad just as we are in life...

What about non-human spirits/entities?

Rooky ~ YAY! A relevant question! 😆

I,personally, don't think all spirits are demons, spirits are "meant to be" the souls of people who have passed away, so yeah you may have some good ones and bad ones, just like people in real life, and to me that's how I see it, basically.

JoyBells,

Its refreshing to chat with someone who looks at the 'big picture' and understands that we as humans have limitations and make mistakes, which include misunderstanding the meanings of foreign words, ancient ones at that.

I am 'self taught' I have never taken a formal class on any of these topics and yet I have found that by asking questions, even simple ones, enlightenment can be found. I started when I was 11/12 years old... I wanted to know 'why' the scriptures meant what our Pastor was telling us they meant... This started because I would go home and read the Scriptures from his sermon and not 'understand them'...they didn't seem to mean what he said they did when taken in context with the verse before and after them... As 'stand alone' statements... Yeah that single sentence 'could' mean what he said it did but when read as part of a paragraph in the Book that was being quoted... Different meaning... Every time. So I left the Church and did 'my own thing' for many years.

I'd still like to ear others opinions here...anybody? Lets have a good old fashioned discussion about Ghost/Spirits/Entities and what they might be. As this is what this site is for... NOT the petty crap we have seen between some very childish individuals.

Here I'll start by posing this question...

'Are all Spirits Demons? Why or Why Not?'

Respectfully,

Rook

Rook:

Thanks for the link; I enjoyed the article immensely! Throughout my research I have been able to complete a few Biblical Theology and Biblical History classes that have focused much of their lessons on understanding Hebrew interpretations and misinterpretations. It's a great field to study in because it really opened my mind to a much bigger picture. This is what drove me to learn more about the spiritual realm and all the things that can get easily misconstrued or ignored in certain Christian communities. For instance - there's SO MUCH that we as humans have to yet to discover here on our planet let alone matters of philosophy or spirituality and none of us should limit ourselves in learning all we can because someone told us that certain books or studies are evil (It's practically judging a book by its cover; or following the leader' even if he leads us all off a cliff). Ultimately I feel it is more important to have an open mind and heart, a helpful attitude, and set of decent convictions to live by and the rest will fall in place (Isn't that what God asks us to do anyway? Love others as we love ourselves, don't judge, be tolerant and forgiving, and having a heart to learn). It's too easy to get wrapped up in the minor details (religiously speaking) but that tends to leads to outlandish rules and fallacies. (Sorry for ranting and getting a little off track - tried to edit most of the lengthiness out and get to the point; I tend to get a little over zealous bout these things haha).

Thanks for sharing!

JoyBells,

Here's my 'penny' for your biblical quote...

Saul was seeking advice and answers... He had banned and had chased out those who were seers, mediums and had 'Familiar Spirits' so he inquired of the Lord and received no answer so he 'waved his own law' and had a woman with a familiar spirit brought to him in order that he may get advice from Samuel.

Most arguments point out how wrong this was/is based on another scripture all together...

Exodus 22:18

18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

What is 'lost'...No, I'll be nice... What has been forgotten is what the Hebrew (Ancient Hebrew) word for witch truly represented...

I'll drop a quote here to make my point...

"That one quote, which shows up this way in the 1500s when the KJB was first put together, reflects the views of Christianity at the time. The Inquisition had been going on for more than a century, and the witch hunter's handbook the Malleus Maleficarum had already become one of the first international best sellers thanks to Gutenberg's printing press. Thousands had been tried and put to death in witch trials, and fear of any contact with someone who might be a witch hadn't yet faded from the populace. In fact it wouldn't be until the close of the 1500s that witch trials became a thing of the past. So despite other biblical translations reading the word as sorceress or woman that practices magic, the word witch has firmly settled into this quote in most people's minds.

Here's where things get hinky with the language. Obviously just as Jesus was a dark skinned Middle Eastern Jew, the Bible was originally written in Hebrew rather than English. The Hebrew was translated to Greek or Latin, and then into German by Martin Luther. English translations came later of course. As anyone who knows a foreign language can tell you, some ideas, words and concepts simply do not cross over well from one language to another. It's why the idea of Lucifer as a fallen angel exists, even though it's nothing more than a translation error. In fact even in the most painstakingly crafted translations, errors can result in very different meanings. Exodus 22:18 is one such example.

According to Reginald Scot, who wrote a book on this subject in 1580, the word we know as witch was actually chasapah in the original language. The translation of this word was poorly done, according to Scot, who states that chasapah in Latin in Veneficium which can be a poisoner or one who practices witchcraft. Ignoring that poison is a genuine problem in that period in time, let's say that evil witchcraft was in fact the original goal. In Latin the term used rather than Veneficium is maleficos, which is a gender neutral term for witch. However when it was translated to German the word became Die Zuberinnen. This made the word witch a female term, though it was written in the margin that this could apply equally to a male. But the damage was done."

(http://voices.yahoo.com/mistranslated-bible-quotes-thou-shalt-not-suffer-a-9165647.html?cat=37)

Respectfully,

Rook

JoyBells,

I enjoy the DEBATE about this topic its always a great amount of fun.

Thanks for your comment, I wonder if anyone will take up the offer?

Respectfully,

Rook

Rook,

I was reading the comments section of the story "The Man With The Binocular" when I came across the bit about this being a possible demonic haunting; I like what you had to say in response to this theory and would have to agree. Like mentioned before, I was raised in a very christian home with both of my parents being pastors -in fact my father has even been involved in a few "exorcisms". And having gone through my own experiences (details disclosed in my story "Demonic Encounters") I have done my fair share of research on the subject of demons in both a Christian and secular perspective. I believe whole-heartedly in the spiritual world and that there are many different kinds of entities beyond just demons and angels. The Bible even has it's share of "ghost stories" (1 Samuel 28 talks about King Saul going to see a medium where the ghost of Samuel is called forth and meets with him). So as someone who believes in God I can also say I believe in a vareity of different kinds of spirits as well. I would love it if this opinion could be shared more openly with other christians as well (I say this respectfully as I am aware that I am not the only one that thinks this way).

Penny for your thoughts!

JoyBells 😁

"admitting the need for help" takes a serious blow to the ego. And really, the need to carry on with that type of behavior is a bad ego-trip. While I don't encourage the use of mind altering substances- some organic psychedelics (peyote,mushroom) have been known to crack the ego code, forcing one to examine their subconscious... Another compound, MDMA, is being studied for some "mental health" benefits.

Pjod - as with anything, though, the first step is admitting the need for help. That may be the problem here.

I also hope she/he seeks out the help they need. We all need help from time to time-

Pjod: I agree completely...I'm hoping this person's New Year's resolution is to finally seek out the type of help they need 😊

Judging by the way "debris/rev. Etc" came on here, bitter towards this site and a few posters in particular- not to mention the timing- checking in right after some announced their bitter farewells...
Safe to say he/she was quite the regular here, under a once steady screenname. Their obsession with this site, and it's members, will have him/her baiting their hook again soon.

awesome I want to go to jeruselum one day to see where my lord and savior was born 😆

Sorry to hear your feeling poorly Granny. I hope your recovery is a swift one and that you are able to enjoy Welcoming in a New Year.

Pssst...Pssst...WE MADE IT! NO EARTH ENDING EVENTS!

MERRY NEW YEAR EVERYBODY!

Respectfully,

Rook

Rook: Got a gallon of Theraflu?...I'll have several 😆...Guess I should've kept my butt out of the hot tub 😆 😆

Well isn't that just the way of things. Verified sightings of an mystic, elusive creature and when you get all gussied up for the hunt the just fade away, back into the mist from which they came.

Anyway the Miss Demeanor is all warmed up, might as well not waste the time and effort that took...

Puff pulls the large, modified Double Decker Bus into a parking lot and throws her into park. He slips from behind the wheel and takes his place behind the wet bar..."Drink orders anyone... Or perhaps a song request?"

Puff Bayram

Poor Rook,

I watched in dismay, as you were led a 'merry dance' by your elusive quarry. It seems they have slipped away... This time! 😉 I have never seen one of this 'caliber' before, so yes, they would look GREAT in a trophy case... Have you got one big enough?

I wish you a 'Hunters' Moon' and a big stick!
Lots of luck! 😊

An engine ROARS to life in a dark ally. Tires screech and smoke against pavement as the massive Bus comes to life. As smoke pours off the tires the Miss Demeanor LEAPS from the shadows. With a flick of a switch the bus driver Puff Bayram sets the music thumping as the Modified Double Decker hits the streets once again...

'I'M BACK!
I'm back in the saddle again
I'm back
I'm back in the saddle again

Ridin' into town alone
By the light of the moon
I'm looking for ol 'Debris'
He's big time active troll
Barkeep gimme a drink
That's when he caught my eye...'

Puff Bayram

Fergie,

Yes I have/did let this one get to me... Something about the I'll pick on this one... Be disrespectful to these individuals... Slam these ideas... And then ignore those I have asked questions of... Just really got to me.

Respectfully,

Rook

😉 Though you have to admit this one is a top of the line Troll... This one will look GOOD in the Trophy Case.

Puff... 😲

Miracles: You can ride shotgun, I"M goin' to the hot tub 😆...There's a lever for the trap door up there, too 😆 😆

Rook,
You really let this one upset your apple-cart! 🤔 Don't let nonsense like this upset you!

Yes, Puff... Fire her up, may I come aboard too? I hear strains of "Gentle on my Mind" to soothe you... 😊

Puff - fire it up 😆 As you said, it is your story LOL and I've got a front row seat on the Miss Demeanor for this trip 😉

Granny, Miracles,

I have a question for both of you... Do you think it's time to fire up the Miss Demeanor and go on a Troll Hunt? I've been ever so bored and this comment section IS ON one of (my) 'our' experiences. What do you think?

Puff Bayram

(Driver/DJ/Chief Bartender of the Miss Demeanor)

rook, I've read the post no four down and also the link. I liked the part where you write we sprang outs nowhere. Makes a lotta sense to me.

Rook: I don't think our friend debris/RevHolmes/Ibex/Thejokesonyou/Mavis/umungu etc., has any intention of replying to someone who can give him/her an intelligent response...

MY APOLOGIES TO ANYONE WHO READ MY ANSWER TO DEBRIS'S QUESTION... I AM RE-POSTING IT SO THEY CAN SEE/READ IT... DEBRIS MY INVITE WAS NOT TO READ MY EXPERIENCE (thank you for doing so) BUT TO READ MY COMMENT THAT ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION CONCERNING GHOSTS... (please see below)

Debris,

This is my 'go to' experience so that other comment sections will not get bogged down.

You have asked/said this...

"I said ghosts, spirits have a different meaning.
We would all love to hear your definition. Pl do post.
I don't find ghosts demons wurth my time."

There's nothing for it except to answer your question... (Hang on to your hats this gets a bit lengthy)

Lets start with Spirits/Entities...Let us say these are Intelligent Energies... These Intelligent Energies exist on/in different 'levels' these levels are separated by what I (personal opinion here) call a veil. For me (personal belief again) there are 3 levels... Divided as such:

Celestial: Highest Level...Angels, Demons (if one is religious this is where Heaven and Hell exist)

Telestial: Middle Level...Non-Human entities... The Fay - Fairies/Goblins... Elementals. Shadow People, The Jinn of Middle Eastern Folklore... Like I stated 'Non-Human' entities.

Terrestrial: Lowest Level... Intelligent Energies from the Celestial Level inhabit newly conceived physical bodies on the physical plane...animals, plants and humans. They are the 'Spark of Life' if you will. The ones that inhabit plants return directly to the Celestial. Their 'link' with the earth means a shared intelligence and due to this link no 'memories' are lost.

However the Intelligent Energies that inhabit Animals and Humans have inhabited bodies with physical limitations, limitations which cause their memories/strengths/'powers' of the Celestial to be 'repressed/forgotten' call it what you will... Because of this they must 're-learn' them and this allows them to cross the veils and return. This may not happen in 'one-go' so there is a cycle of reincarnation or they become 'Ghosts' because they have 'forgotten' how to cross the veil (s), well this is where Ghosts come from... To whit... (to actually answer the question you asked...)

Ghost: Intelligence's that have come to Earth to experience a Physical body... A physical body which has passed on but the intelligent energy hasn't crossed the veil (s) to be back in/on the Celestial Level.

After all that 'long winded' explanation I think I need to leave this link... It may help to explain better and it will keep me from waxing to Religious here on YGS... (this is on YGS's sister site)

Http://www.psychic-experiences.com/real-psychic-story.php?story=6281

Respectfully,

Rook

dear rook,
First of all you must accept my condolences. The net has a bad side to it in the way that it reduces humans to anonymous ids and pixels.
But suffering is real and painful. Losing a child is pretty traumatic. Hope you and your have healed
Youve posted a good story. There is a big possibility you were around while jesus was spreading his message.
I am looking forward to another story like this one. Hope you won't disappoint.
Peace

Kryo,

Thanks for reading... I just hope the individual who asked the question has a look at my answer for them.

People who state their opinions as the ONLY FACTS that matter and do not take the time to answer questions put to them nor even to read the answers (as I've posted on here to a question 'debris' asked me) they have asked of others that just chaps my...

Anyway here to hoping they read the answer (posted by me yesterday in this comment section... 4 comments back now) to the question they asked in this statement...

"I said ghosts, spirits have a different meaning.
We would all love to hear your definition. Pl do post.
I don't find ghosts demons wurth my time."

I also return a question if 'ghosts demons' are not "wurth" your time why are you here giving advice to others with questions concerning them?

Looking forward to your response 'debris'.

Respectfully,

Rook

I love your opinions on the matter, Rook, I've always had a great interest in reading them.

As per the comment I glimpsed earlier on here at how ghosts are never professors... Well, that's simply because they cannot be. From all I have read, and all I have seen on this site, they have very limited capabilities to contact us. If they do, it is for some purpose or another. It's like the leopard; you don't see it until it WANTS to be seen. How many stories are out there where someone has surprised a ghost?

Just my opinion on the matter...

~Kryo

(BUMP!)

It seems this got buried...

Debris asked me a question last night and I placed my reply here so 'debris', OR anyone else who is curious, could read my response please see my reply in my previous comment listed below this one.

Please excuse the 'BUMP' I just wish to ensure such a prolific 'adviser' such as 'debris' has a chance to read my response to his direct question concerning 'Ghosts'.

Respectfully,

Rook

debris,

This is my 'go to' experience so that other comment sections will not get bogged down.

You have asked/said this...

"I said ghosts, spirits have a different meaning.
We would all love to hear your definition. Pl do post.
I don't find ghosts demons wurth my time."

There's nothing for it except to answer your question... (Hang on to your hats this gets a bit lengthy)

Lets start with Spirits/Entities...Let us say these are Intelligent Energies... These Intelligent Energies exist on/in different 'levels' these levels are separated by what I (personal opinion here) call a veil. For me (personal belief again) there are 3 levels... Divided as such:

Celestial: Highest Level...Angels, Demons (if one is religious this is where Heaven and Hell exist)

Telestial: Middle Level...Non-Human entities... The Fay - Fairies/Goblins... Elementals. Shadow People, The Jinn of Middle Eastern Folklore... Like I stated 'Non-Human' entities.

Terrestrial: Lowest Level... Intelligent Energies from the Celestial Level inhabit newly conceived physical bodies on the physical plane...animals, plants and humans. They are the 'Spark of Life' if you will. The ones that inhabit plants return directly to the Celestial. Their 'link' with the earth means a shared intelligence and due to this link no 'memories' are lost.

However the Intelligent Energies that inhabit Animals and Humans have inhabited bodies with physical limitations, limitations which cause their memories/strengths/'powers' of the Celestial to be 'repressed/forgotten' call it what you will... Because of this they must 're-learn' them and this allows them to cross the veils and return. This may not happen in 'one-go' so there is a cycle of reincarnation or they become 'Ghosts' because they have 'forgotten' how to cross the veil (s), well this is where Ghosts come from... To whit... (to actually answer the question you asked...)

Ghost: Intelligence's that have come to Earth to experience a Physical body... A physical body which has passed on but the intelligent energy hasn't crossed the veil (s) to be back in/on the Celestial Level.

After all that 'long winded' explanation I think I need to leave this link... It may help to explain better and it will keep me from waxing to Religious here on YGS... (this is on YGS's sister site)

Http://www.psychic-experiences.com/real-psychic-story.php?story=6281

Respectfully,

Rook

A shame there's no 'edit' button... But something I'd like to add to that: Whether that is or is not the case, if he decides to settle in as a member of the community and share opinions rather than calling everyone stupid, I can be chill. I know very well how crap happens, and sometimes you just want to fix it... And I'm not one to go out there jabbing people with a stick when they aren't doing anything.

I did that to a wolf spider once.

Chased me all the way across the yard.

I think our 'Ibex' is none other than the Jokesonu Mavis dude again. Funny how the posting style is completely similar with all three, no?

Ibex,

I feel its pretty clear that 'any belief system' is pretty interchangeable with the Method I offer.

If one attends an Organized Christian Church then they can insert their Faith Based Prayers.

If one is Wiccan/Witch/Pagan...they can call Upon the God/Goddess of their choosing.

If one is Atheist... They can 'call upon' the Power of Positive Thinking.

I suppose I could change the word 'imagine' to 'visualize' or 'Picture' but I'm pretty sure people understand just what I mean so I really see no point in doing so. Thanks.

Respectfully,

Rook

if you could come up with some variations the readers would have some choice and will be able to choose the one most suited to the person.
Humbly
Xxx

Ibex,

You asked me this on another experience...

"dear rookies I found your cleansing method veri interesting. And I swear by it. I would appreciate it much if you could upgrade it just a little.
Full of gratitude,"

Just what exactly do you mean by 'upgrading'? Is there something specific you are asking about?

Respectfully,

Rook

Yep...

The Miss Demeanor and the LNTP in combination with the MODS make for quick work when it come to them thar Trolls. 😉

Puff Bayram

rook/kryodrache
Our troll seems to have evaporated hehehe

But wait it gets better...

I bring this over here so as to not 'detract' from the answers/aid the O/P may receive on the thread it began on.

TheJokesonu,

You stated...

"believing in jesus is good do you also walk the lords path? You seem more interested in mumbo
Jumbo"

Whats you definition of 'the Lords Path?'

I wish to help others and I come here to share what knowledge I have on many of the topics discussed here on YGS. If helping others is part of the 'Lords Path' then yes I 'walk it'.

Respectfully,

Rook

I'm not completely sure he's going to answer... This seems like a guy who's going to enjoy himself more by throwing random insults around and choosing not to go back to join in whatever arguments he may have created. He's been acting suspicious and has been insulting ever since I called him on the fact he highly resembled 'Mavis.'

Now I might be wrong on this. But... Yeah, troll. Someone enjoying how internet anonymity will protect them.

I post this here so as to not detract from the responses the O/P may receive on the experience this conversation started on...

An individual who is now a 'guest' made a statement... This statement...

"Para normal activity if there be any effects the finances first of all."

To which I asked if the individual had any reference material for a theory like that... Its a pretty BOLD statement and I had hoped to do my own research into why someone would say something like that... The conversation continued and I stated this...

"I agree that Negative activity 'CAN' effect Finances... But not always... And not 'solely'. Again I ask for some like/book for research that you base your observation based on "experience and common knowledge." (That should have read... Something like a book for...)

This was the response our now 'guest' directed at me...

"dear rook
I can't understand how can ones first hand experiences be based on books?
You say you have been studying this phenomenon for fourty years but have you ever lived in a house filled to the gills with the genii?
Or have you ever even glimpsed a djinn?
I don't think so.
Cause if you had had such an experience you would have defo struck the dygin out of your name.
You don't even know me yet you assume your experiences are greater than mine.
You insists on me naming some books that support what I say.
Books are written by men and based upon their experiences. They don't have an astral origin.
To think so would be madness.
You so insisting that it appears that you nearly calling me an idiot.
I didn't come here to get insulted.
Still to satisfy your ego ill say that finances are not effected.
But effected they will be."

First: I never assumed my experiences were 'Greater' than this individual, nor anyone else. They have however caused me to do research into the events as I looked for answers. I simply asked for research material because such a BOLD STATEMENT as...

""Para normal activity if there be any effects the finances first of all."

Should, I would hope, have some 'documentation' backing up, or at least explaining 'why' this is so and I wanted to do my own research into this possible 'effect'. Based on my experience paranormal activity can occur in households of any income level... With finances in or out of order.

Perhaps I should have not said anything concerning this as the individual who I was having the conversation with is now a 'Guest' but I felt the need to address this issue.

I am not an expert... I have never claimed to be... I offer advice and aid based on my experiences and the research I have done because of them... Its all any of us should be doing. We should not be making 'BOLD STATEMENTS' with no way to support them.

Thanks for your time.

Respectfully,

Rook

rook - thank you for redirecting the topic of Azrael to your story 😊

ArriannaSharde,

I'm asking this question here on my thread because of the discussion/debate that may ensue because of it, so here it goes...

Who/What do you believe Azrael to be?

Respectfully,

Rook

Kryodrache,

We all have those 'moments' so please do not worry about it, it's 'water under the bridge' as they say.

There are time's when I've posted something and then realize how much I let my 'personal emotional state' influence the 'tone' of my comments. It happens to everyone.

It's important everyone feels like they can offer their opinion, it's from the diversity that each and every one of us brings that answers, advice and help can be found by those seeking them.

Respectfully,

Rook

Kryodrache,
Well, seeing as I am the master of the big mouth around here, I don't try to let that little stuff get to me. I look at it in a different way when some people get testy. It is a 'sticks and stones' world on the internet. So say what you will, but it is just words set off by a need to vent. You've been here long enough to let it rip once in a while without the world coming down on you. And when you do, I back off. Maybe I deserved it, maybe not. But I've been guilty of it too, and I'm still here.
As long as you are honest, you're okay in my book. It's the one thing I care about. Good, bad, or ugly. It's a big deal in my book.
Thank you Kryodrache, I appreciate that you took the time out to say what was in your heart. Shows you got some 'grande huevos'. 😉

Jav

[at] Rook... And Jav, too.

I've been bugged by this for a while now, so I want to just get this out of my system...

I'm sorry for the way I acted earlier. I was nearing final classes and stressed out about home, family, and a million other things I probably shouldn't have even been worried about. Generally when I'm in a bout of negative thinking, things that people write get strongly negative as well in the manner that I 'hear' them while reading through it.

So... No longstanding harm done, I hope. I feel really bad for tweaking out. I enjoy the community here and wouldn't want to feel like I left off anyone with a bad taste in the mouth.

Sorry again! I value each of your opinions, and always get my attention perked whenever I see you two commenting on a story... They always make me think.

~Kryo

Rook, I like this story too as I was in Israel in 2007, so I remember Bethlehem clearly, but now there is a 9 meter wall around Bethlehem and the west bank towns. Oh well, the price of living there I suppose. Very creepy story. I am sorry about the baby, even tho it happened long ago, it's still a loss of a child, and no one should have to endure that.

galleygal,

Sorry, I was referring to 'our age' at the time this happened. It was quite awhile ago...

Respectfully,

Rook

[at] rookdygin - I don't understand your reference. Who is young, dumb, and full of c*m? Me? I wish. Then at least I'd have that visual acuity I so envy in your navy friend.

galleygal,

Ah, young, dum and 😲 LoL

My friend was a former deck seaman who had converted to Radioman. While he was a deck seaman he was assigned to the deck department and while the ship was underway one of deck departments watch stations was ships lookout. Port/Starboard and Aft. They were all trained observers.

Thanks for reading.

Respectfully,

Rook

Your friend recognized you from 60-70 feet below? I wish I had that kind of visual acuity.

JS: Take care, a good point, thank you for entertaining my innane questioning. And I would agree, after the innital shock, you "should" be able to get over it, expesially if it is someone/thing you are able to recognise in other then physical matters. Agreed that it isn't in human nature to handle "sneaky" well, we are curious creatures after all.

Kardagen: Very true, but after that time period of being unsettled, you would be able to handle it, right? I had to laugh when you said that, because I pictured that happening in my mind.

I have to go for now, but I just want to add that, having a sneaky character around you hardly ever ends good. A boss doesn't want a sneaky employee, so why should a person deal with a sneaky spirit that has sex with them? Also, it isn't just flesh, it's their spirit with the succubus/incubus spirit, and many people don't know their full background. That's very dangerous, very... Dangerous.

JS aka Brandon

Rook: Not at all, You of all people, remain steady in your answers. Perhaps I use Symbiotic in a loose sence. With the literal meaning, you are quiet correct in you previous posting, that even the persumably sexual gratification the human recives. In the end, it is a parastic relationship, as we origionaly agreed upon, but at the time, for arguments sake. The fact that what the human is "seeking" from the entity, be it sexual gratification. Comfort in another being, they are, for the time, reciving what they are looking for. I do, agree with you. That the price they end up paying for this relationship, if what we understand of these entitys. To be true. Is to high.

kardagen,

I'm beginning to feel your looking for inconsistencies with my answers. Your questions seem to be variations of a theme. You've used the term symbiotic in this statement...

"That is not the case though, if we are to believe this a symbiotic relationship, certainly, the entity recives the lions share of the "give/take" but it does give, there by you are getting somthing out of it are you not?"

Let's look to the good book of Webster for that definition...

Symbiotic: a cooperative, mutually beneficial relationship between two people or groups.

The key here is that it is mutually beneficial for both 'people'. Not that one receives more than the other... They 'deceive' the human 'host' into thinking it's mutually beneficial but in the end they 'dump' them and leave them 'worse for wear'. Based on these actions I have to say that Incubi/Succubi are indeed 'evil' by nature.

Respectfully,

Rook

JS: I am curious about that as well, as I know we have a few. As for what we humans can handle, we are de-sensatized to all that, rape, death, murder. Having a male/female "thing" appear befor us. I would assume to be just out side of our normal de-sensatized area. Maybe not all, but some. I speak from my own experience. I do not frighten easily. Spook/put on guard easily yes. But if somthing appeared where there should not have been anything. Even under the pretext of having "asked" it to, I would be quiet... Unsettled.

Kardagen: I've experienced it enough, to pick up on the signs. I'm still learning about these creatures, but 75% of the things i've said, came from my personal experience.

I think us, as humans can handle a lot. We hear stories how little 5 year old girls are being killed and dumped in the woods, little boys being molested by priest, to people being shot and killed during a batman movie. I know we have our weaknesses, but I think we can handle the truth from a succubus/incubus.

I'm curious what others have to say, that actually engage in these relationships.

JS aka Brandon

JS: Assalted with out knowing it?. Then how do we know it happend? I understand your point, but for sake of "argument" I have to ask. And don't get me wrong, I do agree with you, I just truly wish to know the opinions of these "entities" from others. We know what we are told, and what we have heard. I my self, no little more then what I have read, and studied. And half of that I discount, the other half I take with a dose of salt. From my own understanding, No. I don't believe anyone truly knows what they look like. Same with their true name. I would like to believe it because our mind couldn't handle it. I personally do not believe they see it as a "love" thing. It is a survival instinct. If useing a word like "love" makes it easier for the human aspect of the relationship to accept it. They are willing to use it.

Kardagen: I see your point, but the 'true name' issue, is just the tip of the iceberg. Do you know how many people get sexually assaulted by these entities without knowing it? That isn't love, and then they show up saying that, "I've been with you for a long time, you just didn't know it". It's sneaky stuff like this, that leaves me going, "Hmmm".

Also, does anybody know what these creatures truly look like? I know what they truly sound like, and it isn't pretty.

JS aka Brandon

JS: they give you a name by which you may call them, a "true" name holds incrediable power. I mean no offense to anyone here, but should I know my "true" name, there is not a soul alive today that I would give it to. There is nothing wrong with your feeling they are evil, it is your feeling. And it is one that is respected. As to why they want it kept secret. Perchance it is exactly for this reason... You can't see me but I'm pointing out every succubus related story here where they person is told they are evil... If you are told somthing is bad enough times, do you not automaticly believe it?

Rook: and that is where our agreement diverges. "Would you like it if an individual used you for their own pleasure, but in the end you got nothing out of it?" That is not the case though, if we are to believe this a symbiotic relationship, certainly, the entity recives the lions share of the "give/take" but it does give, there by you are getting somthing out of it are you not? I agree with you that the "good/evil" is based on the relationship of how it effects us. I look at it this way. In a "demons" mind, would not the church be evil? Just as in the churches mind a "demon" is evil. They oppose each other.

kardagen,

I believe you have summed up MY OPINION concerning them, though I must admit after my three experiences with this type of entity they are a wee bit more than malicious.

Respectfully,

Rook

Kardagen: Haha, that's very true though, and great question. You see, even when I hear about the 'positive' experiences, they always leave out their true name or they tell their lover to keep it as a secret, why? I mean what do they have to hide?

It may be wrong for me to say this, but I believe all incubus/succubus are evil. I've been tricked by one before, and this 'lady' still doesn't leave me alone. It's something very fishy about them.

JS aka Brandon

kardagen,

We can only Judge 'good and evil' on how the actions of others effect us. If the actions of others are positive and uplifting for us we call it 'good'. If the actions of others hinder or hurt us we call it 'evil'.

I think the 'golden rule' can be used here...

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Would you like it if an individual used you for their own pleasure, but in the end you got nothing out of it?

Respectfully,

Rook

Rook: Ahh, a wonderful sentiment. Do we, humans not stay with out partners knowing the enevitable?. I understand it is arguing symantics. Of course, our love, breeding, and living along side, is not the direct cause of the death of our partners. So you are saying the knowledge they have of the detrimental effects of the relationship is what makes them malicsous? Regardless of the humans understanding of the effects of said relationship.

kardagen,

J/S has a point. The entities we call Incubi/Succubi know what a relationship with them will eventually do to their 'human' counterpart and they still choose to have that 'relationship'. The Incubi/Succubi 'enjoy' the energy from the 'sexual release' but they do not need it to exist... So it's my opinion that they are willing to 'destroy' their 'physical' counterpart in the pursuit of something they simply enjoy.

Respectfully,

Rook

JS: I can understand your point, and it makes sence. I still look at things from a grey prespective, I personally do not see them as "good/bad" they are a spiritual entity, I would say they are incapapable of negative or positive feeling, but we know this is not the case, just from the sure number of "spiritual attacks" people have gone through. So, my next question, are they all, evil?. For examble, every over weight white man named bubba, is an illeterate trailor dweller... We know that is not true. But we continue the "sterotype" does this apply to spiritual entitys as well?

Kardagen: I believe the entity will still be in the wrong. It's kind of like the drug dealers on the street. They know that crack or meth can destroy a person, but that doesn't stop them from selling it. The drug dealer wants the money, and doesn't care that the user or his/her family members are suffering from this.

I think succubus/incubus have no heart, IMO.

JS aka Brandon

JS, and Rook, I have a moral question you could say, in regard to the Succubus incubus debate. If an individual, went into this "relationship" knowing full well the consiquences. Of the partnership. Would it still make the "entity" in the worng? I ask this, as we see. It is very nearly always excepted the sucubus/incubus to be evil, preying on the poor human. Prechance the human was hunting the entity?

kardagen,

😲

No Worries, I invited questions or feedback. I'll go check my e-mail.

Respectfully,

Rook

Rook: Your welcome, and thank you for giving me a better understanding.

JS aka Brandon 😁

Rook: I have read it, and I took the liberty of emailing you my appologize if I over stepped my bounds, my reasoning behind this is contained in the email,.

kardagen.

Ah, interesting 'point of view' statement. I can only base my observations and opinions on what I 'know' and that is all based on 'being physical' at this point in 'time'. 😉

As far as being energy and being recycled, I believe in reincarnation so that 'concept' is not to me. You may be interested in a post I did on YGS's sister site,

Http://www.psychic-experiences.com/real-psychic-story.php?story=6281

Please follow the link and ask any questions or make and observations you may have

Respectfully,

Rook

Rook: IMO who is to say which is the host?. And to which actualy costs more to, provide the others "need" of course my own feelings on the subject are matter to change with circumstance. I appologise, it isn't in my nature to give striaght answers. But to a question I can the after life, or my view on it. I tend to believe we, as "energy" or "spirit" are recycled. For lack of a better word. We return to where we came, and are "mixed" with those befor us, thus to me. It "explains" how some, have knowledge of things they were never taught, or cultures they would never have knowen, but through the "mixxing" older, and younger, west, and east, it is all mixed together, and redistrubuted. I appologize that I can't get my own thoughts/understanding from my mind to my fingertips.

kardagen,

I think that is a very fair way of saying it. For some reason I felt the need to 'ramble' about it but, Yes in a nut shell it's just what you stated...

"a symbiotic relationship, if not slightly parasitic?. Both "parties" recive what they are "looking for" in a sence, with the host, having a slightly larger burden then the other?."

Though the burden on the host (IMO) is more than just 'slightly larger'.

Respectfully,

Rook

Rook, would you be willing to say it is a symbiotic relationship, if not slightly parasitic?. Both "parties" recive what they are "looking for" in a sence, with the host, having a slightly larger burden then the other?.

J/S,

You've seen for yourself how many people on this site think a relationship with an incubus/succubus is a 'perfectly natural' and 'positive' experience.

However with these type of 'entities' it's not a 'positive/negative energy' they are looking for it's the type/level of energy that is released by the individual at the moment of 'sexual release' that they seek.

To get what they 'need' they will make their 'host' feel comfortable, happy... Whatever it takes so that they can have access to that specific type of 'energy' that is generated by 'sexual release'.

The 'negative' side of this type of relationship (MHO here folks) is that the individual withdraws from 'normal' relationships, they no longer are satisfied with 'physical contact' with another individuals. They become isolated recluses that desire less and less contact with the 'physical world' and seek only the comfort of their 'spiritual lover'. They of course 'see' nothing wrong with this and after all is said and done they become lonely, friendless people who do not (can not?) function in normal society. Their 'spiritual lover' will eventually leave them when the 'energy levels' of their 'sexual release' no longer satisfies the 'incubi/succubi and they are left an emotional wreck who is so removed from society they really can not function normally.

An Incubi/Succubi is one of those situations, that I mentioned, that a BANISHMENT is needed.

This is of course MY OPINION based on my experiences... I have known 2 women involved with an Incubus and 1 man involved with a Succubus and all three were working out to be the 'case' I described above. In all three cases it took a BANISHMENT to 'free' them from the influence of the 'entity'. One of the women and the man were Wiccan Rituals and the other woman was a Christian Ritual (before anyone asks all three are to personal for me to share as an experience).

Thanks for 'thinking out loud' J/S. Keep thinking, and keep asking questions.

Respectfully,

Rook

Rook: Yes, It did answer most of my question. However, I still wonder about people that are having trouble with succubus/incubus. I've done research, and 'people' say that these spirits are the most difficult to banish. Is it because their in love with these spirits? It could probably escape into the victim during the cleansing, sort of like the apple that's bright red and shiney on one side, but rotten on the other.

Maybe, it could be succubus/incubus that are powerful enough to manipulate positive energy, which keeps them around or, instead of just being a one way street for negative energy, they can attach to sexual energy to stick around. That may be why it's so hard to banish these spirits.

You know that in history, the monks and priest were the most common victims for succubus, and i'm sure they have a lot of positive energy. I'm not knocking down your cleansing bro, i'm just thinking out-loud, haha. 😊

JS aka Brandon

J/S,

You asked this on another experience...

"Rook: I was thinking about your cleansing method, and i'm curious if it will get rid of an evil spirit all the time."

I'll answer it here...

It's not 'designed' to 'get rid' of evil spirits it's designed to change out the 'energy' in a given environment. It's purpose is to take an environment that is high with negative energy, which negative entities/spirits/demons seem to prefer and changes it out for a positively charged environment... Now this will not 'banish' an 'evil spirit, as you put it, instantly but as the energy changes 'it' should become weaker and weaker until finally it finds the environment unwelcoming and departs.

There are cases where a Banishment/Exorcism is more appropriate and the cleansing/shielding method that I suggest can help with either of these but in and of itself it is not 'equal' to either.

I hope that answers your question.

Respectfully,

Rook

it has been good. I am pleased. Rook you should email me for more in depth convo. Anyone else who wishes to be on the email chain let me know.

I have an interesting point to go over that someone I know believes and I wanted your opinion on it. It is very strange to me.

Reedinaz [at] aol.com

redphx,

Thank you. This has been a very interesting discussion. I'd like to thank everyone else who contributed as well.

There are things that red and I could go round and round about, but I feel that we would drift well off topic and I'd rather not do that.

The afterlife questions stands for any who wish to contribute to that particular conversation.

Respectfully,

Rook

"no one gets to choose a path. We are either good or bad. Humans can't do that though. They are animals and they need to make each sect more important than another."

This was in response to what Jav asked. I stated we should all "walk the same path" meaning not be judgemental and living life to better ourselves and others. Then she asked. Who gets to choose this path? To which I said no one does. And that human can't seem to let it go that we need to be into catagories.

I don't drop hints. I'm very literal and when I say mission, I mean my own personal goals.

And what am I?

I am me. I am not in a catagory that fits into what humans have invented. All these things and groups on our physical plane mean nothing at all.

Like I said. When we die it doesn't matter what religion we were or what job we had or how many kids we produced. It matters what we did and how we were to others.

As for the "afterlife"

There isn't really an "After" It is just existence. If our energetic soul is here on the physical plane inhabiting a flesh body our soul still exists just as if we were at home on the energetic plane. I guess the best description would be the astral. Time is something we use on Earth but not in the energetic.

So if you want to say life is what it is when we are here physically then the after would be us going home to the energetic to live on level four of the astral. And this is only one parallel. There are many that we can visit in our energetic form and some people here on this physical plane aren't even from the same astral plane that most human souls are from.

After reading everything it seems my comments are to be directed towards the things redphx had to say...so, if I do not address anything else it doesn't mean I didn't read it... Nor does it mean I agree with it. It simply signifies that I understand the points that were made and I accept that they are the opinions of those that posted them... Having stated that, away we go.

Redphx,

I am very methodical when it comes to most, if not all of my comments. I use cut and paste and focus of direct quotes so that it does not seem I am attacking, but mostly asking question in an effort to better understand where a person is coming from.

So with that disclaimer... AWAY WE GO...

I agree with part of what you have stated 'here'...

"Wiccans do stupid stuff like this too.

They judge others and get mad when the way they live and what they believe is not taken as law by others. If someone else doesn't believe what they do, something is wrong.

Wiccans preach - we love everyone, the earth is green and the sky is blue and we are happy wonderful people - but F those christians. (um what?)

Maybe I should state it different. It isn't necessarily the religion."

Your correct, Wiccans can do stupid stuff and they can be as judgmental as anybody else and you are correct it isn't necessarily the religion... So why did you even say this...

"Wiccans preach - we love everyone, the earth is green and the sky is blue and we are happy wonderful people - but F those christians. (um what?) "

Your sentiment is 'spot on' when you say WTF?!? You can be so spot on with some observations and then you interject a 'personal bias' and by doing so you have lumped them all together. You have 'lumped' them all into a pot and colored it 'black'. Have you ever spoken with a 'Wiccan' who 'gets it?' If you do you will find that if they truly understand their chosen belief's then they will not be such judgmental individuals. It's the whole 'Karma' / 3 (7) fold law thing.

Next...we have discussed 'free will' I know we have so what is up with this statement from you?

"no one gets to choose a path. We are either good or bad. Humans can't do that though. They are animals and they need to make each sect more important than another."

So do we have free will, or not. Can we advance our 'Spirits (Souls) ' or not? A 'bad individual can see the error of his ways and make changes so that they become 'good'. It is this 'free will that makes us different from the very 'animals' you call 'them' (more on your use of that term later...) You call them 'vibrations'...I feel ours can change... They change based on our decisions and when we pass our 'level' can determine if we 'ascend', 'descend' or 'return of another round'. (See I knew I could bring it back a wee bit closer to the 'Spirit Realm'. 😉

Ok, it's 'later'...

You have made some interesting comments, I've agreed with quite a few of them, questioned the ones I didn't understand and at times we have 'had words' over things I did not agree with. What I'm about to say may be part of that latter category, so without further 'Adieu'...

Through out your comments you seem to say many things that lots of individuals will agree with... You say some others that I'm sure make people say 'Huh'? Then there are little comment's you 'sneak in' that make me 'cringe'...The most recent one is this...

"I got into sooooo much trouble at Catholic Highschool. Because of what I am and what I do I scared some of the other girls (all girls school) They effin turned me in to the dean. "

I could go back and pull up other 'odd statements'...things like...'my mission' or 'the reason I am here'... So I'm going to ask out right...

Just 'what are you, Why are you 'here'? What is this mission? These 'hints' that you drop seem intentional on your part... Now maybe I'm being 'paranoid', I invite everyone to go back and read you comments... Not only on this Experience... But all of them... Please let me know if I'm a complete 'Nutter'.

NOW TIME FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT:

What is everyone's 'view' on the 'Afterlife'?

Here's a very quick overview of mine... (My personal views follow... MY OPINION as to how the afterlife is 'organized'.)

There are 3 'level's' they are...

Celestial: This includes 'Heaven/Hell' (the highest and lowest 'levels' a spirit (soul) may obtain).

Telestial: This is where 'ghosts' reside. Spirits (Souls) with unfinished business, Spirits (Souls) who have not completed the 'learning process' that is a 'physical existence'. Reincarnation is possible from this 'level'. This is where 'non-human' spirits dwell as well.

Terrestrial: This is our 'Physical Existence'. Our Spirit (Soul) is sent here (Earth) to experience a physical existence. Using their Free Will they (we) make decisions that determine if we 'Ascend' to Heaven (the highest level) or 'Descend' to Hell (the lowest level).

There can be 'crossover' between these or else there would be no haunting's or Angelic / Demonic visitations.

I have kept that so 'nuts and bolts' so that it's as 'Religion Free' as possible.

Thanks again for such a great discussion.

Respectfully,

Rook

Look what happens. My weekend starts and I leave you folks alone for a couple of days and I have to come back on a street sweeper to clear up the debris just so I can find which points need to be addressed.

First: I'm going to 'pick' through this as see how to bring these thoughts back so they are a wee bit more 'in line' with Ghosts... As this is a site for sharing our true ghost experiences and not a place to 'bash' others beliefs. I would hate to have to break out the Miss Demeanor on my own thread, but I will by gum if it keeps us 'on topic'.

Second: I may very well end up on my soap box as I did see a couple of items, perhaps a bit more, that I do feel need to be addressed.

So to those who thought this has drifted away from the core topic of this site, I do offer my apologies...I'll see what I can do to straighten it out and show the relevance this has on 'views' of the Spirit World.

Respectfully,

Rook (Puff Bayram... Warming up the bus, just in case 😉)

Jav: i'll see you there 😊

Rook: Good luck catching up bro 😆. I hope you don't step on the broken glass.

There you are!
I'm glad you understand.
It's a rough and tumble world friend.
And I'm just enjoying the ride!

Jav 😉

And with that, I will bid you adieu for a bit. See you on the bus.

*Hugs Redphx and Jav* It's ok, I understood that I was going to be knocked upside the head with one of those bottles soon. I tried to dodge em haha.

P.S. I have some Irish blood as well 😊