Comments for Tour Of Jerusalem And Bethlehem: Page 2

Come on... I'll be nice.
I promise. 😊
You aren't making me uncomfortable JS.
You just got in my path.
It's my fault, not yours.

Jav

Aaaw... Come back here JS.

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to be so harsh about that.
That's just the way it is when you jump into a girl fight.
You get hurt, we don't mean to but we can't help it.
And by we, I mean women. Particularly when we are already hot under the collar,
Again, I'm sorry.

Jav 😢

Jesus_Soldier... You were not judgmental by any means. I was sounding judgmental.

We all love you still. And we are all in the friendship circle in the forest of feelings

That's right hun!
My husband.
What a saint he is for putting up with me.
Heh heh heh

Jav

Remember what happened last time?
I won't say it, but I know you remember...
You're a pretty good scrapper there Lady,
We'll just leave it at that.

Jav 😁

he he he.
Mystical invisible karma point, BAM!

Nope they don't get it! My husband wants to write a redhead for dummies: how to guide and instruction manual

I told him that would be pointless as the directions for each model is different.

Jav: I understand where your coming from. I didn't come to this site to convert people. I've been reading stories on here since 08/09. I wasn't even saved when I joined. People may look at my name and say "Uh oh, another self righteous bible thumper", but I don't care. People can love me or hate me, either way, I will still love them. I decided to make a account, so I can give advice and possibly make friends. I know some or most may not agree with my advice, but those 15 to 20% will. If i've came across as judgemental or whatever, I'm sorry. This whole discussion started off with me and Rook, and turned into this 😆. I just hope people are cool with me, because I don't hold grudges. I love everybody like I do myself.

Thank you 😊

Red: I know what you mean, but I think it's time for google LOL!...I think those are the "deadly" sins because they lead to other sins, as well as to each other: A glutton is a greedy sloth etc. 😆...

They really don't understand redheads, Red.
And they never will...

Jav

LMAO. Yeah I remember you are red too. That is a toxic combo right?

That was for the bystanders. 😆 😆 ❤

Uh, Red? You remember who you are speaking to, right? The crazy redheaded Irish Catholic from Tucson?

Jav 😆 😆 😆

I'm literally someone who snaps and this heat isn't helping the sitch either.

The redhead jokes are true. This is one I made up.

What happens when you speak to a redhead before she has her morning coffee?

We don't know, he hasn't come back yet ❤

sorry. My irish anger decided to get away from me. I have a problem because not only am I Irish, I have the redhead temper and I have Arizonan psycho harsh meaness.

I have many things stacked against me. It shouldn't surprise you that I do follow people in my car when they cut me off, I scream at people who cut in line, and I have gotten into actual fist fights.

I'm better. I won't do that again. Sorry

Peace Red. That one was too funny to be mad over! 😆 😆

Jav

50 freaking characters!

I was not insulting anyone.

I can call Christians dumb, I can call muslims dumb, or jews.

I can call anyone dumb. But if they are not dumb, then why would they get mad?

If a Christian believes they are right, then no matter what I say will change that. Or how I say it

If I gift wrap the words into pretty statements it doesn't change the meaning of the message.

If you are not dumb. Then don't get mad.

I'm refering to the dumb people who are the masses of the planet. There are dumb people in every religion. I don't know anything about the Jewish faith to call what they do dumb.

And at times, I'm not calling the actual individual dumb. I'm saying dumb as a response to a hypocritical issue that some people of the religion make. The throught process doesn't make sense.

no one gets to choose a path. We are either good or bad. Humans can't do that though. They are animals and they need to make each sect more important than another.

And we are already in war. Everyone is telling eachother which path is better. They are killing over it. RETARDED

Uh, I am not trying to convert anyone to my beliefs. I'm pointing out the flaws and hypocritical actions that have already happened.

I don't give to flying F's what people believe. I'm just telling you why I don't.

ARe you getting upset I don't think they way that you do? That I am challenging the religion?

If I am wrong? Why are you right?

You can't get mad that I am "bashing" a religion and then do it back to me. I'm not insulting anyone. If I am going to insult you I will call you by name.

Kill the masses to save the few... Religous statement of the year

Now I'm just kind of saying things to get a rise out of people. Fun topic!

Look, the last thing I want is to start a war here. But you have to understand something Red. Calling people stupid (or whatever) based on their faith is just not fair. And choosing Christianity as your model of meanness and evil intent is too easy.
I like the conversation that was going on. Just curb the insults, alright?

Jav

oooo thanks Granny! I'm thinking in my book they were calling these 'bonus' mortal sins something else. I can't remember the exact name. I called them mortal sins because that is what they are techincally but they are the mortal sins of the religion. Not the ones in the Bible.

I am going to have to find my catholic beliefs book so I can give you the title so you can read it. It was the book that we studied and had thrown down our throat.

And a lot of Catholics don't know most of those "kinks" I honestly think that is because it is more lax now than in the past. I don't know how old those things were they taught us. But like I said, I don't really care. I'm not Catholic. I almost was though. I almost converted to get married to my husband. Until a nun told me I was a sinner for having "before marriage relations."

They seriously need to step out of the dark ages.

Uh, maybe though. It depends on the race. Uh, eeee, my husband is Mexican and his family are the type that go to Mexico to walk the steps of chapels to pay homeage to our lady de guadalupe. So that may have soemthing to do with how strict it was.

And some Catholics are not that way. Like the church with the female priest (she was excommunicated) but you see my point. Over the generations the teachings were relaxed.

"If religion didn't exist, and we all walked the same path"

So... Who gets to choose that path?

Nice way to start war if you ask me.

Just sayin"

Jav

and another thing I don't like about some people who follow any religion. Wiccans do stupid stuff like this too.

They judge others and get mad when the way they live and what they believe is not taken as law by others. If someone else doesn't believe what they do, something is wrong.

Wiccans preach - we love everyone, the earth is green and the sky is blue and we are happy wonderful people - but F those christians. (um what?)

Maybe I should state it different. It isn't necessarily the religion. That is a made up thing. It is the people who can't think you join the religion. Some people can think. But we have 7 billion people on this Earth, and I'm sure the Christians on this site have brains. I can't say the same for the other billions of people.

If you are insulted by what I say that means you have a guilty conscience.

Some of the most evil people in the world, are preaching the word of god. You can't say one thing and do another. Just because one goes to church doesn't make them good

People need to understand. I heard a preacher say this and I loved it

"Church is a rehabilitation for sinners. Not a hotel for saints."

(Okay, I had to come back and address this

[at] red,
I was born and raised a Catholic.

[at] Jesus Soldier,
Don't get me wrong JS, I am no Bible thumper. I won't be standing on the corner ambushing folks to bring them to Jesus. You won't catch me spewing the "Word" all over the comments sections. That is not how we do things at YGS. My faith is my business, I don't want to have any "Come to Jesus Moments" here, understand? My faith doesn't require me to drag others in the door for their own good, whether they like it or not. I think it's rude to assume that others need to be told how to find Jesus. To me, that's just the same as calling someone stupid. It makes folks uncomfortable. Pushing it on people is just bad manners. It's a personal invasion of the highest order.
The end

Jav

Also Red, not trying to argue, I just want to point out what the "7 Deadly (Mortal/Capital) Sins" are, and this is for all Christians, not just Catholics:

Wrath
Greed
Sloth
Pride
Lust
Envy
And Gluttony

I don't think taking Communion or not fits into any of those categories...I'm not Catholic, (but I played one on TV😆) but I have cousins who are, whom I went to Mass with on several occasions... From a small child, I was taught by my Mom that the only participation during Mass by a non-Catholic should be standing when asked, and being seated when asked... Which was PLENTY of participation for me 😆...None of my cousins or Aunt and Uncle told me I'd burn in hell if I did do anything else...

I don't know, I can totally understand your rejection of organized religion and your perceptions of the Catholic Church...You're not the only one who feels that way, I'm sure!

you guys I'm seriously not lying about that. That is why I stated other factions of christianity understood what it meant to take in the body and blood and it is a symbol I know Jesus didn't tell anyone to eat them

That is not my belief. You haven't been paying attention

The Catholic faction is the only one that I know who does that. And most Catholics actually don't know that if they haven't studied the religion.

Also my point made, every faction interprets the same material differently.

I don't believe in the literal bible. And I think religion is a sin. I wish it didn't exist. If relgion didn't exist and we all walked the same path... Millions of lives would have been spared.

I mean really? The Vatican decided that since Jesus was born in Jerusalem, that that land belonged to them. They were killing people. The people who lived there because they said they were evil sinners. I'm sorry, that doesn't make sense.

I am not bashing any Christians. I am merely pointing out flaws in the logic.

Deal with it

Jav, you also just made my point. You can't get upset over a Biblical/religous conversation.

Most christians lash out like that because it is an alternative to the way they were taught. And I say most because if you are a fanatical Christian you are probably not on this board believing in ghosts.

They are the ones who condemn you for speaking out, having a voice, having a different thought.

It is a war that will never stop. Christians think they are right. The Jews think they are right, the muslims, and I could go on. But if everyone is right in that. Who is wrong?

I challenge people to look at their faith and look at the basic tools that you were given to learn about your faith. My belief comes from within. Not from others.

I can tell you right now that the human made crosses that hang on walls and are available to buy don't actually do anything. I had an experience with an angel that made me find that out. I don't wish to go into details about it.

The cross is a symbol of persecution. Thousands of people were cruicifid. Thousands. We worship a symbol that meant death and murder. I focus on what Jesus taught, not how he died. That is like taking the image of someone you love you died and you wear a symbol of the thing that killed them. WTF

I'm happy you are a Christian. That is good. That is what you have identified yourself as. I don't do that. I'm not someone who is in a faction. I am technically considered a Christian as the definition goes because I believe in Jesus (not in the same exact way) but I will never say that I am a Christian because...why? We are all the same. Living in the same sphere and we go to the same place in the end. It doesn't matter what religion you are. When you die, it doesn't mean a thing.

Doesn't YGS have a sister site specifically devoted to religious discussion?

Doesn't YGS have a sister site specifically devoted to religious discussion?

No that is not foolish. They taught us that in our catholism class. It was ridiculous.

And that is Catholic. Not other Christians. There are many many factions of Christians.

I myself am considered a christian.

Catholics mourn their religion. What I said were the exact things they bashed into our skulls. They are out of their mind

Most of Jesus' teachings and sermons are not meant to be taken in the "literal" sense... He wasn't saying "eat me" at the last supper, Red 😆...

Jav: Wowzers 😁, I just want to say 'welcome to the party my sister'.

You know what? Forget it. I'm going to walk away from this page and not even worry about this.
This is me turning the other cheek Red.
What do you see as I walk away from you?

Yeah, those are cheeks too...

Jav

Red,
What the...? Where do you get this crap?

"In the Catholic mass you are literally consuming the body and blood. The Priest does his thing and when he holds up the wafer it turns into the body of christ (literally) the wine is turned into his blood (literally) in Catholic mass you become cannibals."

"If you are not baptized into the Catholic religion and you go to their mass and injest the body and blood of Christ you are committing a mortal sin and will be sent directly to hell when you die."

Please stop this foolishness dear. It is staring to get weird.

Jav

Redphx: 😆 I see why your so against organized religion (same here). That mortal sin stuff is stupid. If we don't go to church every sunday, we go to hell? Get out of here! If I went to that school growing up, I would be the kid with his hand always up 'exposing' their teachings. It makes me sick...

Hey Red,
(Dragging Rook's soap box over and climbing up)
I feel compelled to step up and add my two cents for the Christians here. You, and countless others, have an impression of how and what most Christians believe when it concerns the Biblical text. Like I said, it isn't you alone that does this. However, whenever I hear it, I normally fight off the temptation to respond. But everyone knows I can't hold back when I feel a need to speak my mind, so here it is.
I'll make this as painless as possible...
Simply being a Christian, a true believer in the One God, does not mean we are required to believe everything we read in the Bible is some sort of template for living our lives. Nor is it a fact that we have blind faith in the words therein. When you say that these stories are meant to be taken as examples, not as fact, MOST of the Christians here are reading along and nodding our heads in silence. We have been putting up with the misguided assumptions that you and the other "non-Christians" have been attributing to us about how and what we believe for so long that we don't even bother to correct you anymore. It never seems to stick, no matter how many times, or how vehemently we protest. I read through your posts, alternately nodding my head and rolling my eyes. It is stunning to me that you really believe we are that naive. Like a lamb to the slaughter, that is how you picture us?
Stop that! If you think these things are new to our ears, you are sadly mistaken. Each time you bring them up, you always conclude with the warning that we need to learn them too. Surprise of surprises! We have always known! But do you hear us shouting it to the world? NO! Why? Because they knew it too.
The difference between us is we grew up going to church and Sunday school. We learned lots of things there too. You ask a child that attends church and Sunday school with their family... "what is a parable?" and you know what? Even they know what it is!
Look, I really enjoy these conversations. Especially when they are as informative and interesting as this one has turned out to be. And I love it that you have been educating yourself so well in these matters. It really shows. I have been smiling a lot reading these posts. Up until the insults about how stupid we Christians are for not knowing these things, I'm pretty happy.
So please step back and rethink what you are saying. I am referring only to the part of the conversation that has to do with teaching and studying Biblical text and the history behind it. None of this is new information. We (MOST of us) are not stupid and gullible. We just learned it before you. You have a mindset that has you looking for the things you can use to beat Christians over the head with, thinking you have found something new each time. It's all part of our history as Christians. And most of it we learned in Sunday school. The newer information came from the Dead Sea Scrolls. And it wasn't even NEW, it was merely confirmation that the Biblical text has never changed. Did you know that? The Ten Commandments are still read the same as they had 2000 years ago.
And what the hell is this crap?
"If you don't go to church every sunday you are committing a mortal sin and when you die you will be sent directly to hell."

I'm done Rook. You may have your soap box back now...
(rolling my eyes as I walk away)

Jav ❤

it got so bad. They were setting up spies to follow me and my friends around to make sure we weren't doing "things of the devil" I got into trouble for other bad things that I won't go into

Long story short. I was asked to not return to that school again the following year. I was excommunicated from Catholic Highschool. I only went there because of the education purposes.

I got into sooooo much trouble at Catholic Highschool. Because of what I am and what I do I scared some of the other girls (all girls school) They effin turned me in to the dean. I was ripped out of my class room and escorted to the panel of nuns and the priest and basically had a modern day "burning at the stake"

Oh the memmories. LOL

I went to Catholic Highschool so I will tell you about how they certain things. (yay me. Got to study this)

Mary is a sacred symbol. The Hail Mary thing is to ask Mary to pray for the sinners. Mary can't be prayed to. You can only ask her to pray for you and other sinners. You are only allowed to pray to the Lord and Jesus.

Mary is sacred in that she gave birth to Jesus and had imaculate conception (which is BS, but anyway) She is the "mother" of the church

The priests are called father. They are the ones who can communicate with God. Nuns and monks are sisters and brothers. They look up to the Priest and he is in charge hence 'father' There are head nuns that can be called 'mother' like Mother Teresa. They are the nuns that go above and beyond and are recognized.

Women are not allowed to hold the title of priest. There was one woman priest in recent day and her church was excommunicated by the Pope.

All christian churchs were to be built under the permission of the vatican. I don't know if that is still true today.

Most Christian sermons have the symbolism of the body and blood of christ. I've been to some that hand out bread and wine or water or what have you.

In the Catholic mass you are literally consuming the body and blood. The Priest does his thing and when he holds up the wafer it turns into the body of christ (literally) the wine is turned into his blood (literally) in Catholic mass you become cannibals.

You must be baptized when you are first born. This is to wipe away the original sin that was committed by Eve during the first betrayal.

At 6 you take communion. This is when you are allowed to injest the wafer (or body of Christ)

When you are 17 you are confirmed. They wait unti you are 17 so you know for sure if you want to remain Catholic forever.

If you are not baptized into the Catholic religion and you go to their mass and injest the body and blood of Christ you are committing a mortal sin and will be sent directly to hell when you die.

If you are a regular christian not baptized and you go to mass you must cross your arms over your chest when you approach the priest to show him that you are not going to take the wafer and the prist will bless you.

If you don't go to church every sunday you are committing a mortal sin and when you die you will be sent directly to hell.

In order for you to divorce (even if you weren't married in the church) you must ask for an allulment from the church. They will review your case and either say yes or no. That is gods word. God won't allow the divorce. I know when my husband was trying to divorce his ex the church wanted to charge him $50 for this service. This is when my husband was still Catholic before I 'enlightened' him so to speak. (Oh the fights we had...)

There are other mortal sins. I think 7 if I remember. I just said the 2 that were the most ridiculous.

Redphx, Rook, I'm loving this discussion. I love to balance out teachings. It helps me learn and know more about the person as well.

Redphx: I agree that some Catholics or Christians will use the bible to chop heads off, instead of showing the love of Jesus. Yes, it's a guide for me and others also, but i'm going to tell you what I mean when I said "I don't know where the pope teachings came from." (I don't see myself better than anybody, like the scripture says: "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" - Romans 3:23)

I don't agree with their priest being called 'Father' when it says not to do it. I see other people say 'Rabbi' as well.

"But all their works they do for to be seen of men; they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, And love the upper most rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues. And greetings in the markets to be calleof men, Rabbi, Rabbi. But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven." - Matthew 23:5-9

Ok, now I know some people don't see the bible as a guide, but they do...Next.

We have the Chaplet of Divine Mercy (prayers with the Rosary), Hail Mary's...Hail Mary? I'm sorry if I'm coming off as a 'know it all, bible bashing punk' but no where in the bible does it talk about Rosary beads or Hail Mary's. *scratches head*?...*finds scripture* "I am the Lord: that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images" - Isaiah 42:8

I don't see Hail Mary's as acceptable to me. It looks like borderline 'worship'... To me. As far as the Chaplet of Divine Mercy? Please look it up... Or i'll just post it in the next comment.

Speaking of graven images, whoa. Have you seen how some of my brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ have been bowing down to statues of the Pope and Mary? If not, please google. Yes, I said google.

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments" - Exodus 20:4-6

You see, Religion wants to fit us with glasses, but the Lord wants us to open our eyes...

"A demonic spirit favorite activity is making a person feel religious without an understanding of the Word of God." - Pastor Max D. Tune

Even Jesus said "Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God" - Matthew 22:29

To combine what you said about Lucifer, and the Pope... Ill quote this, "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his (notice it said 'his') ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works." - 2 Corinthians 11:14-15

Its very easy to be deceived, if you don't know the bible. Even if God used men to write it (completed around 95 A.D. After book of Revelations, some of those men where witnesses to Jesus teachings,healings, and rise into heaven. They even slept next to Jesus.), He still uses His Spirit (Holy Spirit) inside us to guide us to the truth.

"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak, and he will shew you things to come" -John 16:13

Thank you for your time

Rook. I think that you are correct about the Big Bang theory and the intelligence. Like I said, I am iffy on who makes the "souls" I don't know who decides what is created where. I don't remember that. I do like your belief about a Creator making other things. That makes sense and sounds right.

Yes, I agree about your version of "granting powers" it isn't an actual pass of ability but an illusion that a being will create to exploit the person they are receiving their energy feed from. I was breaking it down to the nitty gritty of assumption that people think you actually sell your soul. However, even if this person who is being taken advantage of, when they die, they may have a heavier weight to their soul but the demon would not have ownership over them. If the person dies the demon goes his way and the soul will move to the vibrations and he will evaluate his actions and decide if he wants to remain weighted in the lower levels or be reborn to try to lighten himself.

I don't think angels fall nor do demons advance. They are born of their energy. A human is not. They can go both ways and back and forth if they choose. A demon is a dark being. An angel is a light. No matter what an angel does he will always remain light. So even if Lucifer wanted to take the place of his superior his soul would not be weighted. It is interesting to point out the prison part. I do know that both angels and demons have their own court and police so to speak. I am not 100% on where Lucifer is right now. But it doesn't sound too far fetched far an angel council to punish one of its own. I don't think it would work for an angel to be in the lower levels just because their energy would not be able to keep them there. Nor would any lower level beings like the close proximity to a light entity. I don't think Lucifer did anything actually. I just think he was thrown under the bus to make a point in a story.

Rook. Yes I agree that men chose those stories. That was my point. People take what is in the bible as law but they don't understand those stories were hand picked. I don't think this God would be vengeful but he is shown in that way for humans to control one another. That was my whole debate. And my main point. My initial question was, do you take what is in the bible as literal fact. It can't be literal fact, at least not all the way, if humans wrote it, created it, and use it as a tool of war and control. That what the masses know as the "word of god" is in fact the words of humans.

Jesus_soldier

You stated one point that I was trying to make.

The Pope comes from the same teachings that you know. That is why I say that everyone interprets things differently. You took the stories of the Bible and learned the moral teachings. How to be good. The Catholics used the SAME teachings to persecute and pass judgment. All the Christian factions believe in essentially the same thing and they all come from the same background. Yet they all think they are better than eachother. Ridiculous.

When I say Lucifer is an angel I mean he is NOT the devil. He still is in the upper vibrations. He was used as a tool to teach a lesson.

Also I agree that God forgives. Translating to my beliefs that means that if you choose to be a dark soul you can change your mind and lighten your soul to the light. This is a choice. The forgiveness isn't even a factor because no one judges you but yourself. In the Bible and what Catholics preach is that even if you are evil you can still accept God into your heart and repent. Even if you do it after you die. This is the forgiveness that they talk about.

Redphx,

You have stated some interesting things concerning demons granting powers and the 'selling' of ones soul. While I respect your opinion mines a wee bit different...

If one 'deals' with demons and they 'grant powers' it doesn't mean the individual receives powers but that the 'demon' makes it seem that way by using it's powers to make the individual 'feel' as if they have been granted special abilities. If the individual 'buys into' this... And they think they have been granted 'special powers' then they will 'sell their soul' in exchange for these 'abilities'. What that means...'selling ones soul' means the individual has promised the 'energy' of their soul for the use of the 'demon' they sold their soul too. The 'currency' of the soul is it's energy... The more souls a 'demon' has 'attached' to it the stronger it is. It acquires these souls by individuals 'selling' their soul to them... Think of it as a collection of batteries... Each soul is an individual power cell... The more power cells a 'demon' has the stronger it is (Hope that makes sense). The 'Devil' of course has the 'most souls'. More on him in a bit.

Modern Satanism does not involve animal sacrifice... Though I do agree if people are conducting animal sacrifices they are doing so to satisfy a different set of deities. Even if they call it 'Satanism'.

Your statement concerning Satan being the personification of evil is interesting... You also went on to state...

"There isn't a being satan. Lucifer was an angel who was thrown under the bus essentially. They stated the reason he was cast out was because he went against the order and he had pride and other tings. This story is teaching you (falsly IMO) that you can't have your own thoughts and beings and you can't question the lord."

I can not argue that people have taken this part of the 'story' and used it to help 'control' individuals. However there is a wee bit more to the story...it's not that Lucifer 'questioned' God... That is something we all have be given... We all have 'free will'...so Lucifer asking questions was not the issue... You also mentioned Pride... Now this does 'play' into Lucifer's 'downfall'. Lucifer not only questioned God's Authority... In his Pride he sought to take God's place... The 'entities' in Heaven (in the astral as you have said) used their 'free will' and chose sides... When it was all over the 1/3 that had sided with Lucifer had 'lost' and they were cast into 'prison' along with him (him being Lucifer). This 'prison' is called 'Hell' by some or the way you put it the 'lower 3 levels of the astral. Lucifer's name then became 'Satan'. So I have to disagree with you when you say 'Satan' is not a 'being'. He is a being... The 'being' formally know as the angel Lucifer. (Please no Prince jokes...) You are correct when you say Lucifer is still and angel... He is a fallen angel. He 'changed his 'Vibration' to a 'lower level' by his decisions and by doing so 'fell' to the 'lower levels' of the astral. A great many went with him.

As far as the Biblical God being 'such a nasty being' as you put it, you have to remember that 'Man' decided just what books and stories would go into the collection that became the Bible. These men chose to tell the story of a group of people being 'oppressed' by a another group of people who either embraced teachings from the 'lower levels' of the astral or that simply chose to promote their personal agenda without regard for anybody else. Those that chose to follow 'God' were shown his 'mercy' and his 'powers' aided them to escape from or protected them from those 'out to persecute or harm them'. So we do not get all the stories, just the ones that supported the fact that a certain group felt 'special' because of the aid they had received. (Yes folks I really am a Christian... We have to keep in mind that History is written by the victor)

Again, thanks for the discussion/debate. This has been really interesting.

Respectfully,

Rook

Wow, redphx, Jesus_solider. Thank You for the answers, feedback and the 'bonus' material. Now I will at least be able to understand 'where you are coming from' on some of the comments you make. It's only fair I return the 'favor'. So here is a 'bare bones' version of 'the beginning' and the 'Spirit World'... (Religious overtones removed...)

The Beginning: Empty void, Nothingness pressing in on itself until...

BOOM!...

Energy explodes outward with a 'big bang'.

From this Energy an Intelligence is formed. This new intelligence chooses a form for itself and 'realizes' it has the ability to Create things with the unformed energy that it is a part of and that surrounds it. It creates other intelligences and they have the 'power' to use the energy that they are a part of and that surrounds them, but they themselves cannot 'create' anything from this energy, only the first may do this.

The First Intelligence then creates 'Heaven, Earth, Water... The 'whole creation story'... As the energy came together to form this new 'physical realm' lesser intelligences are formed with 'attachments' to the new physical things (Earth, Water, Air, Fire...).

Then the first Intelligence creates 'man' and shapes it into a 'likeness' of the original form it chose for itself. This new creation 'mankind' is a vessel so that the Intelligences that were called forth from the 'Energy' could experience a 'physical' existence.

In so choosing to experience a physical existence they cross a 'veil', which causes them to 'forget' from whence they came. When the physical body they inhabit 'dies' these Intelligences once again cross the 'veil' to return to the presence of the First Intelligence.

All of creation is formed from the energy released by the Great Explosion of Nothingness (As manipulated by the First Intelligence) and as such is a part of us. It influences us and we can influence it. Some Consciously (Psychic's) others Unconsciously, and others nearly not at all. Some 'know' how to control it (Memories from across the veil), others can be taught how, while some could care less nor even believe it's possible. This connection manifests differently from age to age, person to person. Some can Heal, some can 'see the future' and there are those that can speak with 'spirits'.

Ah, there it is...Spirits...these can be those that were formed and are associated with 'nature' (The Fey, Elementals, ect...) or those Intelligences that have come to Earth to experience a Physical body... Which has passed on but haven't crossed the veil to be back with the 'First Intelligence.' (Ghosts for lack of a better word).

I hope this helps people understand where my answers come from. I could go into so much more detail but I'm trying to remain 'Religion Netural' and keep this 'short'. Feel free to ask questions, I'll do my very best to answer them.

I will continue to read the other comments that have been made and if anything strikes me to comment on I will do so.

Respectfully,

Rook

Redphx: Yeah, Lucifer is still an angel. The bible has explained how his name was transformed into Satan. I think that Lucifer wants pity from other people, so he twists words (scriptures) around. He did this in the desert with Jesus. God is merciful and loving, but you can't walk all on him and expect to get the gravy train. If anybody repents of their sins and ask His forgiveness from the heart, He will forgive them and take them in 100% of the time. The pope is another story... I don't know what doctrine he came with... I don't agree with his teachings at all.

the people who worship Satan exist. They are idiots. Satanism is basically a religion that tells you to be selfish. And also be moronic and do stupid stuff like sacrafice a goat. WE are not in ancient Greece. So if these retards are sacraficing a goat they are doing a ritual to Hades. (other gods have similar things) Hades is not the devil or satan.

Satan is the personafication of evil. There isn't a being satan. Lucifer was an angel who was thrown under the bus essentially. They stated the reason he was cast out was because he went against the order and he had pride and other tings. This story is teaching you (falsly IMO) that you can't have your own thoughts and beings and you can't question the lord. This is a ridiculous story. Of course you can. You can question anything you want to. Humans liked this story though. They realized that if you teach people to fear the act of being expelled and sent to hell they will follow without question. The Pope is a wonderful character who has been put in power to "be the link to the lord" The Pope says he is the one who can talk to him. Well, do you have a magical gold phone you use to call him? Is it by email? Fax?

Makes no sense. If you want to speak to the god you have in your life you can. YOu can do it taking a shower, mowing your lawn, making breakfast. You don't ever need anyone to tell you what the lord says.

The story of lucifer was to enact fear. Also too the guidance in this story is to explain to people that if you deny the white light into your life you will be of the dark. That is all.

The devil is the personafication of what you could be if you do bad things. If you do harm to others you will be like the devil. Not a being, but a state of mind.

Lucifer was an angel, and still is one, and he wouldn't be punished for flipping the bird to the lord. He has choice like humans. Humans have every choice to flip the lord off. And in the bible if you do that you go to hell. Why is the God in the Bible such a nasty being? Why does he push away? Murder? Send people to their doom? How could this lord be accpeting yet persecute? You have a choice (this is what they call judgement) if you want to be in level 4 of the astral you either go back to Earth and advance your soul. Or you bear the weight of your soul and you belong in the lower levels.

My favorite story is when Jesus was being tempted by the devil when he was in the desert. The devil told Jesus to prove he was the son of god. Jesus said that if you don't tempt God. You believe. You don't need anything else. No outside influence, no tests, no predictions. This is my favorite story because what I believe Jesus to be, this is something I feel he would say. Not in those words but the message is the same.

As far as sticks turning into snakes... You have to think about what people had to reference when they were writing these stories. They used a different symbolism than we know. But it is still a good story"

Redphx: That's pretty much what I meant. That reminds me how those magicians tried to turn their staff into a snake like Moses.

"And Moses and Aaron went in unto Pharaoh, and they did so as the Lord had commanded: and Aaron cast down his rod before Pharaoh, and before his servants, and it became a serpent. Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and sorcerers: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments. For they cast down every man his rods, and it became serpents: but Aaron's rod swallowed up thier rods." (Exodus 7:10-12)

I just wanted you to know where I was coming from, when I stated 'grant powers'.

I think that it isn't literally speaking about a soul being cast out of the body. I think it applies to a person not living for Our Heavenly Father and His Son Jesus Christ, but their focus is on worldly gain instead of spiritual fellowship with Jesus. I also believe that Satan exist, and that some people perform rituals to him. I can go deeper if you like...

Thank you for your time

what do you mean grant powers? Demons can't transfer their "benefits" to people like they are pokemon cards. Do you mean when they take possession?

A person can't sell their soul. No one can buy a soul. I don't know who would have use for such a thing. The soul is our energetic selves. If we didn't have souls our body would not run our robot bodies.

I think the term "sell your soul" has been a phrase people used to mean they are doing things that are bad. These bad things are things humans made up like when they burned innocent women at the stake.

Also the term could mean that you sold your soul to gain knowledge of eternity or something else dumb.

The term sell your soul is purely a fictional term. It is a term humans used to persecute, identify a bad person, and to entertain you in movies and books and such.

No one would want a soul. I wouldn't. It be a person sitting there talking. How irritating would that. Plus I don't have the money to buy a soul. Nor do I know where there is a store for such a thing.

A lot of people say 'you sold your soul to the devil!' ok well, if the devil existed that still wouldn't be possible.

Redphx: Yeah, I see your point. I'm still studying on it, so ill get back at you later on. I do want to add that demons can grant powers (healings,gain,etc) to people. That brings in another topic. Do you believe that a person can sell their own soul?

😆 That came from me, I get corny every now and then. 😊

a good example of other factions is voodoo has its own method of exorcism. As do pagans and the native americans. They didn't have the bible but they had people trained in the art of exorcism. If you believe, anything can happen.

That last part is so corny! Where did that saying come from?

Jesus_soldier

Exorcisms do exist. I believe that a few people do get "possessed" Exorcisms are done in every religion, every faction of belief has some form of it. To expel and unwanted entity.

These other people don't use the scriptures. They use their own things. It is the belief in your method that makes the method work. The words you say mean nothing unless you as a person feel power from the words. If you believe that saying those words you can stand up against evil and expel it, you probably will. It is your belief behind the method that works.

I don't think a lot of people have ever come down with a true possession. A lot of it can be related to illness. But there are cases it happens.

Redphx: I'm curious what your thoughts are, concerning exorcisms. I'm going to do a study on this topic starting today. Some of these cases involves scriptures being quoted. I believe it's divine power in the bible, that's why they use it, and name of Jesus. I just wanted to know where your coming from on this subject.

P.S. My Dad always said "don't ever argue about religion or politics", but he didn't say I couldn't discuss it. 😁

Me too. Those guys fascinate me. No one really has come up with much of an explanation for their existence, they just tell you to protect your self. In my thinking, they aren't the ones to worry about. They really don't care what we think either. We are not their focus at all. At least that is how I see it.

Jav

right. Hat Man would be there to get lower level beings so they would be giving off the same type of energy. I agree that the being he is watching is also giving off the energy. I really don't think they are light enetities. My psychic-psycho delusions are saying that. LOL. Fun stuff. Good conversation. I like trying to figure out where these beings come from. Rather than just how to protect against them

HA! I just misspelled my own name now!

50 here, 50 there
Crap for a 50
And halfway there,

I was thinking that the bad vibes may not even come from Hay Man at all. That whoever it was that saw the dude did not see who Hat Man was actually there for. And that being was the one giving off the bad vibes.
Either way, Hat Man isn't the problem, he is the solution.

Jac

and I am sure that these Hat Men are not in charge of a full on demon. That is a different being. Hat Men would be able to help with imps or other lower entities that are not of the upper demon class. Makes sense to me. And I have to put them in my novel now!

Hat Man very well could be something like that. I am leaning on the side that these beings are not of the upper vibrations. I think they are lower level entities created to keep the other lower beings in line. I mean seriously, lower entities can't just be let out to play with everyone.

That may be why they have "bad" energy. They are not light beings.

I think of them as the original Shadow men. Not the shadow entities you here about these days.
You rarely hear about the Hat guys anymore though. So that has me wondering too. And you're right, they were rarely ever reported to have touched humans. They simply watch.

Jav

i don't think Hat Man (love the name) is in charge on the energetic side though. I think those are more on the angel side of beings. I think they are in charge on the physical side. Just like what the police are supposed to be.

Maybe when they show themselves to humans they are trying to be comforting to let them know he is watching. But that probably doesnt' play in his favor much. I bet they have entities they track.

yeah, when I read stories about those entities. They are never the ones attacking. They are watching and that's it. Some people even report that after the initial experience if other beings are involved, the other beings stop showing up and this big black entity comes back a few times and just stands there.

I think people are afraid of him because they can't explain him and I'm sure his energy is off putting. But they are not the ones that attack. They may walk up to someone but very rarely touch someone. They watch.

Yeah that is how I came to that conclusion too. Not only that, they are reported by many people across the world. They are their own coalition

Hey Red!
I was halfway through your post concerning the levels when I read something very interesting...

"There are some entities that take on the role of "police" They watch and they will help in the physical if need be and they keep the lower beings out of level 4. I honestly believe that the entities that people report that they see of the tall man, in a trench coat and top hat are these"police." They usually pop up when there are other entities around. I think they watch a lot"

The reason I find it so interesting is because I have been thinking the same thing about those guys. I remember reading a few stories about them when I first joined the site. Just from the descriptions given of how they exuded a sense of superiority and never seemed to give a crap about trying to hide their presence from humans when they noticed them. I got the immediate impression that these guys don't mess around. They seemed to be observing things. Keeping watch, so to speak. Like the Secret Service, but not for the living. It occurred to me as though, from reported sightings at that time, they were there to keep things in order. And even though the person telling the story felt that it was looking at them, I got a different impression. I felt it was keeping something else in line that the author had no idea was even there. The feeling of dread they felt probably came from the entity that Hat Man was there to keep tabs on.

Just thought I'd throw that one in.

Jav 😊

I agree that the Bible is a guide on how to live. The problem that I find though is most people don't view it as a guide. They take it as fact, then they twist the message and use it as a law book. If you are not EXACTLY like the people in the stories of the Bible you are breaking the moral law. They will use this "law book" to punish others. Some religions are run by a bunch of Bible bullies. They are lawyers of the exact text when it isn't supposed to be that. I don't like the interpretation that some people have created of the word of "God"

First off those words were written by humans. Just as I have written my words today. I don't write law. Nor do I say that I am 1000% right and if you don't think I am then you are an idiot and must be burn at the stake. I say hey, this is what I know, this is from my memory. People can disagree. But my soul knows what I know. I go by what I remember not what other people have said. The Bible is a very misused tool that humans created. And they didn't create it really. THe people that wrote those stories started off just writing stories on paper. It was a committee that went through all the stories, chose which ones they wanted, and stuck them altogether in a book and called it law.

To answer your questions. I do not believe that people should do what they want to do. But I can't stop them nor can I change the weight of their soul. The point of that was I can't judge the weight of the soul they wish to be. If I turn them in, which I would do to keep others safe, turning them in means nothing to them. They are still evil.

I'm not talking about the physical on that one either. The energetic soul. If someone wants to be bad and be a part of the lower vibrations that is what they want to do. I'm talking about I won't judge people on the energetic plane. The physical plane is different. WE are all here, connected to one another. Every step, every thought, every minute changes the course of the entire world. Our fates are decided but they can change.

So the point of that was. I don't judge the soul for the state they wish to be in. They can change themselves if they want to.

Ghosts are human spirits. They can be in either class. They can be ghosts of people who have died, "crossed-over", and returned for a visit. Or they can be ghosts who never went to the astral plane.

Angels- are energetic beings who are born into the upper vibrations of the astral. They can be born into a human form if they wish to. They do have their own system of doing things. They are just another species like anything else. Mostly they do keep the upper vibrations in line. Why wouldn't they? It's their home.

Demons - are the opposite. They are a race born of the lower vibrations. They are not permitted to enter the upper vibrations and from what I have seen they don't like the white light. In fact I my friend's first visit didn't go well because of it. They are a race, just like humans. They also can be born in human form.

You see. The human physical plane which is what we are is basically the test field.

A soul is created. WE are energetic beings first. Our soul is created (this is the only thing I don't know how it happens. I can't remember this part. I really can't. And it pisses me off) But the soul is created. A human soul is a round orb (other being appear different)

The energetic place or the astral is basically like the heaven that you know. But not exactly. The afterlife is not the afterlife. It is just returning. Life here on Earth is the short periods of lessons. We don't exist here first. Our home is the astral. So you need to think about life in the opposite. When we leave here, we go home. The astral (I've been there and been to different vibrations, once was a weird thing about visiting my grandma who is still alive but I will tell you how that's possible in a sec) So there are 7 levels of vibrations. 1 through 3 are the lower levels (this would be like your hell if you had to name it) 4 is the level that we human souls live on and 5-7 is where the beings who are born into the upper levels live (your heaven I guess, this is where angels live and the other enlightened souls)

So level 4 is where most human souls live. It is just like here. There are houses, and jobs (no money) but each soul has a "mission" some souls just like to be born into the physical constantly. Some have to be if they want to reach a lighter state. Some souls choose to live in the lower levels with the demons and other bad souls because they like it. Other souls are essentially trapped down there because they don't know how to rid themselves of their hate. Other souls are delusional and are down there. The souls are just like people. Doing things all over the place, each with a different agenda. There are some souls who decide to really advance. There are some souls who want to take the path Jesus did and move up in the levels. Now there are some who can move up and live among angels. These are the souls who offer guidance and teach and they will be in charge of making regulations for level 4. They don't become angels. Angels are angels. Born that way.

What is interesting about angels and demons is they can't change the weight of their energy. It is interesting. If an angel goes on a rampage and is born into the physical and slaughters people he will still be an angel and allowed back into the upper vibrations. However, both angels and demons have others of their race that do "keep peace" If their race decides to destroy one of their own they will. This is no business of regular souls who live on level 4.

There are some entities that take on the role of "police" They watch and they will help in the physical if need be and they keep the lower beings out of level 4. I honestly believe that the entities that people report that they see of the tall man, in a trench coat and top hat are these"police." They usually pop up when there are other entities around. I think they watch a lot. But I don't know for sure on that.

So, we decide we want to be born. We pick our parents and our friends and our lessons. We are born. I am thinking that souls tend to be born within the same network of souls they know on a repeated basis. This is why I assume that each race of humans each has their own quirks I guess would be the word. Each race and most people in the race all act the same in some way despite where they live. I think their mannerisms is on the soul level, not the physical race one. The only reason I am thinking that is because of the idea of "soul mates" and in the past lives that I've seen. I have appeared essentially the same way. I always appear with light skin and red hair. I'm always Celtic. But this is still a memory that is surfacing, I can't remember exactly.

Now. The reason I was able to dream into the astral in present day and see my grandmother living over there and she isn't dead yet is because in the energetic state we live in. There is no time. It is a continuous thread. That is why some people can have premonitions. They are able to tap into the thread and view it. Because over there it's just existence. Past, Present and Future all exist at the same time. Reading tarot cards. This is a skill that allows people to also tap into this thread of existence.

Fae, elves, and other beings are energetic creatures too. Very rarely are they able to take on a physical form. No that's not it, rarely do they want to. Fae don't exist here naturally. They have their own world, on some parallel. They are able to be born into a human form as well if they want to. Most don't. But some do. Their soul is shaped different than the regular round orb you see.

Sorry about saying the argue word. I think I would like to replace it with debate. Argue was not the right word. I too enjoy these discussions. It is very rare that I get to express what I know.

Sorry this is so long. Let me know if I need to go into more detail. There may have been things I missed or didn't explain enough

redphx,

You have made this statement...

"I'm sorry Rook. But you are arguing with me about things that are here on the physical."

I didn't enter this conversation to argue, I entered it hoping to find a way to understand just what your point of view is. If my observations and questions seemed argumentative please understand I never meant them that way.

We seem to agree on more things than you may think. Though I Freely Admit I believe in God, as a 'physical entity' and that the Teachings in the Bible fall into three categories... Historical, Prophetic, or Educational. Educational in the sense that those particular stories help to 'Jog the Memories' of our subconscious (soul) and serve as a Guide so that we may 'find our way back'. Those that 'hide behind' or twist those Teachings for there own ends truly do not understand them.

I've posted a lot of my views in a fairly non-religious manner in a submission to YGS's sister site, please follow this link as it's a bit lengthy to put here.

Http://www.psychic-experiences.com/real-psychic-story.php?story=6281

There are a couple of things you have stated that I wish to ask about...

"All that matters is how I behave as a soul. And even if I was a bad soul that is no ones business but mine. If I choose to be evil. Then I can be evil. If people put judgment on me for being evil, then are they any better than I am?"

And

"If someone came to me and said, hey I killed 3 people and I'm not sorry and I know I did it. I would say hey at least you admit it. That is not my job to judge them. If they ask my opinion I would tell them I don't condone it but it is their soul. Their choice. If they are happy and they think they are right then good for them. That is not what I aspire to be so I don't need to follow the same path. I have my own..."

While I admire you non-judgmental attitude I have to ask if you believe Anarchy is the state the world should exist in? I ask because if everyone minded their own business and each and every individual followed their own 'moral compass' that is what would exist...Anarchy...

So is that it, our 'natural physical state' should be one of Total Anarchy as we all try to remember the 'moral' lessons we were taught in what you have called the 'astral'?

Oh and the big one... Just what are your views on the afterlife? Ghosts, Spirit's and non-human entities? Where do they come from, why do they hang around?

Thanks for your time, I am quite enjoying this conversation.

Respectfully,

Rook

Redphx: Yeah, I would love that. It's so flat out here. I need to visit my family that lives there, and check it out.

one thing that people really like when they visit here are the mountains. We have lots of them all around.

Redphx: Well, after living in Missouri my whole life. I'll take just anything with a different mix to it. I would like to experience the desert life.

depends on your definition of beauty. I like trees that are up north at Flagstaff

Jav: Haha, well sign me up. I've heard that it's so beautiful out there.

The heat is intense, there's no question about that. However, it lasts for the summer only. The rest of the year is great.
You know what they say... If you can't handle the heat...

Jav 😊

Jav: I remember saying a couple weeks ago that I wouldn't mind living in Arizona. Well, scratch that! I really do mind! 😆

Rook: Yeah, that's very true. Their just concerned about making money, not the message being put out.

Now to answer your question about the time I accepted Jesus Christ into my life. I tried to read the Bible plenty of times, but I wasn't fully giving my life to Jesus. It made it hard for me to focus and understand the words. Then I came to my lowest point in life, which made me surrender my mind,body, and soul to Jesus. I asked Him to take the wheel, put me in the passenger seat, and He did. Ever since then, I been 'studying' the Bible, and not 'reading' it like I did before. It's a overwhelming feeling when you know that you no longer have to climb a huge hill of sand barefoot anymore. Your simply carried up the hill by the grace and love of Jesus. Don't get me wrong, we still have battles haha.

Thank you for your time

Rook,
Sorry for going a little whacko on your thread here. It's the heat.
(That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!) 😆

Jav ❤

Red,
I hear that! I'd like to see some of these snow birds hang around and try grabbing that steering wheel after the car has been baking in the 117 degree heat! They wouldn't be waving at every other jerk in a motor home on the Interstate while taking up the fast lane going 45 mph in those behemoths, making the rest of us suffer, now would they?

Jav 😆 😆 😆

Thanks Lou! I have always had such a nice way with words and such nice things to say about others. 😆

Jav,

I read this poem once about AZ. Basically it stated that the devil created AZ for his vacation home. He made all the cacti and the heat. Then while he was here on vacation he said he had to leave because this place was hotter than hell. I was laughing so hard.

It is awful! I get to work later than most people and they take all the cover parking. I dread going to my car for the drive home

Rook.

Sorry I re-read one of my comments and I wanted to restate it because it sounded mean.

I wasn't meaning that you believe that Jesus or God were mean or anything. I was refering to the fact that I don't believe that the Biblical defitinition is correct. I do believe in Jesus and what he taught but I don't think the Bible gave the best explanation. Nor do I believe the people who wrote the Bible knew what they were talking about. For all I know they were on dope. So I don't believe in the same definition of Jesus that most do. And that is ok and I am happy knowing that I have followed what I know rather than what people have told me they know.

Love ya', Red. Good to see you back.

I haven't been able to follow the story line since my laughing fit when you called Lemont a big dummie.

Say hi to Ester and Grady.

Lou

Red,
I think you did this about a year ago too. Remember? It turned into a huge slugfest! Holy crap! That's too funny!

Jav

Ps Hot enough yet? We may as well be in Hell with this heat wave hanging in for the next week or two. And then comes July 4th, the official start of "You will never dry off completely for the next two months" season.

Yes Red, look what you have started! I usually stay away from debates on scriptures and religion because I am blunt, and am bound to shake up more than a few sentiments. And here I am, posting as a part of a debate.

LOL!

I have to say this - I agree with everything you say, but I don't entirely disagree with Rook. Between us, we have our own difference of opinion, but in the end, it is what you do that matters, not what you know you should do.
As far as I know, Rook has done a lot of good stuff, and I am talking only from the YGS perspective. Each one of us here has done stuff that we can look back at and be pleased that we did.

So does it really matter on what we know we should do, or what our faith is? (I have to say that I do not follow religion, and for me Jesus was the best teacher to have walked on earth).

❤

I found Dantes inferno very good. I also had the illistrations as well. That was very good. I liked it a lot. The Book of Revelations was good as well. Like I said, humans know how to entertain.

I know I haven't been here for some time. I had business elsewhere. Then for some reason I had this feeling to come back here so I did. Look what I've started! LOL

so to answer your question.

Do I believe in the Jesus Christ that you do? No I do not. I don't believe Jesus is a heartless hypocrit. Do I believe in the same God you do? No I don't. I don't believe God would tell anyone to kill off thousands of people and to use his name to control and to punish.

I believe in being good. The Jesus I talk about believed the same thing. Humans are a very ugly race and they take beautiful things and make them bad. If people didn't have anything to use against one another. They would still find something. Like how they value money and shiney rocks. It is my job to take care of myself and those who need my help. It is not my job to judge anyone on their actions. So what if someone killed off an entire race of people. They just need to realize that it was no ones choice but theirs and theirs alone. Humans like to blame God for their own actions. Unless this God came down from the clouds and pushed that little red button then he wasn't involved. It was their choice and their actions alone. I will pass judgment on someone who does not accept responsibility for their own actions. If someone came to me and said, hey I killed 3 people and I'm not sorry and I know I did it. I would say hey at least you admit it. That is not my job to judge them. If they ask my opinion I would tell them I don't condone it but it is their soul. Their choice. If they are happy and they think they are right then good for them. That is not what I aspire to be so I don't need to follow the same path. I have my own

Hey Red! Long time, no see girl!
Alright. I have been watching this thread, reading along, checking back, the usual. I have a suggestion you may not want to hear, but I am going ahead with it anyway. There are two written works I think you may be interested in reading. Not for the message, for the imagery. Serious stuff, been around for centuries.
#1 ~ The Book of Revelations from the bible.
#2 ~ Dantes Inferno

You want to talk demons? You read those and you will see what I mean.

Jav

And you keep trying to fit me into the human teachings. I don't fit that mold nor would I be able to battle it. That teaching is all anyone knows and you judge me against it. Which proves me point.

I believe Jesus is the incarnation of the white light. WE can't be taught how to reach enlightenment unless someone in our form does it. God is everything but not an actual being in a chair. It is the everlasting so to speak. Stop looking in your box and look beyond it. What his intentions were did not really pan out correctly. People use his name to judge others and to punish them. It shouldn't matter if I didn't believe Jesus existed. It shouldn't matter if I think the sky is purple. All that matters is how I behave as a soul. And even if I was a bad soul that is no ones business but mine. If I choose to be evil. Then I can be evil. If people put judgment on me for being evil, then are they any better than I am?

God is not a being. Jesus came to us on his own accord. He has choice just like the rest of us. Why would he not? People have made him into a almost fictional creature.

I'm sorry Rook. But you are arguing with me about things that are here on the physical. Certain aspects of history carry a lot of weight because people think they do. One of the biggest things about people is that they create energy. A thought is an energy source. If millions of people think that something holds weight then it will. You can't argue with the mass opinion. Humans have killed eachother for centuries in the name of Christ. Personally if this "God" people say told them to kill off thousands of people then I don't want to know that God. That does not fit logic. You can't tell me that Jesus loves everyone but then say this group of people are evil. How does that make sense? I don't get my morals from anything but myself. You can spit scriptures all you want. But what do YOU think. What are YOUR beliefs. Pretend you have lived in a cave and you don't know any religion, any god, nothing... What do YOU bleive is right? That is all that matters.

and I am not sure I knew Jesus on Earth. I highly doubt it. Most of my feelings towards him come from my souls heart. They are just engrained "knowing" It is not hard to know what his messages were. We all know them. We were all taught the right and wrong before we were born. It's just that nobody remembers when they get here. Life gets in the way. Humans are emotional creatures. Acting on impulse. There are some very very evil people, but they are that way by choice.

I don't blame the tool. The tool was invented by humans. Jesus did not write anything down as far as we know. Other people have reached enlightenment but not at the same level Jesus has. But that is what we are all trying to do.

Religion and books mean nothing in the afterlife. When we die we don't have signs that say Jewish left and Christians right. Your beliefs mean nothing. Everything is based on what you did. What kind of person you were and were you good. Now everyone has their own beliefs regarding good or bad. But we are all born with the ability to identify if we do something wrong or not. We are all born with moral compass. If people find peace through religion that is wonderful but when they die they will not be given a trophy. It is only that they were good to themselves and to others.

There is no hell nor is there a heaven. There are levels of energy. Humans have described these levels by giving them terms. Heaven is for the upper vibrations where the good moral souls reside. The lower vibrations is what humans have labeled hell. No one is condemed to these lower vibrations by anyone but themselves.

For example: If I go through life and I kill for no reason. And I thrive in bad energy. When I die I will go to the lower vibrations because my energy is bad. If I don't like it in the lower vibrations where other bad souls and entities like demons reside I can choose to be born again and try it again. If I succeed then my soul regains its lighter energy and I have learned my lessons then I can go into the upper vibrations. I can choose to stay there or I can choose to be born once again to gain more knowledge and advance my soul. WE are all in charge of our own destiny. WE don't have judges. WE have souls that are to guide us but when we die we are not on trial and no one is our judge but ourselves. That is why when you die no matter who you are you are met with other souls that you have known and that you are connected to. They guide you to where you want to go.

Nobody is better than anyone else and we are all allowed into the upper vibrations. It is our own decisions that decide where our eternity is. And we don't have to stay in one vibrations for the rest of existence. We all have the choice to advance ourselves.

The Bible is a book. The Koran is a book. A book is a bunch of words written down. People read books and no one person translates the same message from those words. But they are just words. They mean nothing. The person can read those words until they are blue in the face but does that make them good? No. It is the way they live their lives that decides that. Nothing else. And there are different stages of enlightenment. Jesus is the ultimate white light. Other souls have advanced I am sure. But not to the degree he has

(Part 3 in which Jesus_solider's comments are addressed and I conclude my replies to redphx's recent comments and by doing so bring this conversation more 'In Line' with the preferred Topics like the Paranormal, Spirits and even the Astral Plane... At least I hope so)

Jesus_soilder,

I'll start with this quote from you...

"I see a lot that goes on... I even know that the same company that published the NIV Bible version, also published the satanic bible."

A publishing company is in the business of doing just that, publishing books... Books that sell well and make 'lots of money' for lots of people. They try to remain neutral so unless they state they are specifically a Christian Publisher you will find that they Publish anything from the Best Classics to the 'Worst Smut'.

Now you have stated you have read the whole Bible... I have as well... I can claim 3 times I've completed it (Being Underway while enlisted in the Navy you find you have a LOT of time on your hands). You also have stated you have accepted Christ into your Life... Was this because you read the Bible? Or did you first accept Christ and then read it. If the former it's good you found 'Him' but I urge you to try again as your Faith will grant you better understanding of the scriptures. If the Latter did you find you understood the scriptures better than you had before asking Him into your life?

(We now return to redphx's comment's...)

Redphx,

I stated earlier that the more you commented the more it seemed you moved away from Jesus's Teachings and I believe this proves it out...

"you may ask "how do you know any better than what Jesus said as opposed to what is in the Bible?"

The aswer to that is we ALL know what he said. We are not born without knowledge of the teachiings from the astral. We are born with amnesia. We have forgotten and there is a reason for that. Most people live know listening to their brain, not the memory of their soul."

Now I understand you 'infer' that the 'knowledge' we are born with but cannot remember are the teachings of Jesus... But you continue and as you do so you draw further away from anything Jesus taught...

"The logical aspect of life comes from our physical teachings. Our subconscience is our souls memory and some people have learned to tap into that. We all have morals that our soul carries but most people look to the physical teachings like the Bible to show them what they think they should live like. When they already know what is right and wrong. People have started to look outward instead of inside where the answers lay."

You move even further away with this...

"There is no hell nor is there a heaven. The weight of our soul determines which level of the astral we will live in. If we choose to be born again to re-learn what we failed to do, we can and change the weight of our soul. Demons are a species born of the lower vibrations and angels are a species born of the upper vibrations. They are there own beings and they are not made to help nor torment good or bad people."

So you have moved away from anything resembling the Teachings of Jesus and into things one learns concerning Psychics, the Astral Plane and Reincarnation which are topics Jesus never taught about.

I respect your opinions but in one of your first comments in this exchange you ended it by saying...

"Enlightenment is hard to reach. Jesus showed us the way and taught us how to forgive and be happy and learn."

Which brings me to a couple of questions...

So which is it... Do you truly believe in Jesus Christ... The Son of God? Or do you believe in Jesus, a man who taught enlightenment?

This 'enlightenment' you refer to, just what is it?

At the end of it all you leave us with this...

"If you take away all religion and influences all you are left with is your soul. And what you know. That is what people are failing to miss. They are not saved just because they believe in the Bible. Their soul is not light if they used the word to murder and they think it was for a good cause.

You are you. With or without Jesus being in your life. That is what people don't see people need to stop blaming and relying on what they are told is good.

Everyone knows it already they just have to trust themselves and look on the inside. People say Jesus saved them and now they are better. No he didn't. People need to give themselves credit. Jesus taught everyone how to be good and they took the advice. But they were the ones who did the work. Jesus didn't come down and hold their hand. They did it themselves. I don't know why people don't see that."

Now I agree with your point we all 'know' right from wrong. It's also up to us to choose between the two. What I am having trouble understanding is that is seems you Blame the Bible for the 'bad actions and poor choices' of those who have chosen to hide their 'bad actions' behind a MASK of Righteousness.

Murder, the Pursuit of Riches, Personal Gratification and a Desire to Lord over others are all Personal Agendas and just because the individual has tried to Justify their actions with Biblical Quotes doesn't make the Quote / Verse / Chapter nor the Bible a bad Book that misleads people. It just proves out that people will use any means to Justify their actions. That makes the individuals bad not the source material as you seem to keep pointing out.

Next there is this comment...

"People say Jesus saved them and now they are better. No he didn't. People need to give themselves credit. Jesus taught everyone how to be good and they took the advice."

I'm not sure I understand this statement... If an individual chooses to follow the teachings of Jesus and becomes a better person for it aren't they in fact 'saved' by Him and His teachings? Sure it was a personal choice, but by 'taking his advice' as you put it they have Chosen the Right and 'saved' themselves. You are correct, they (we) are the ones that do the work, but it is by applying His teachings and following His example that we better ourselves and help others.

I could climb onto a soapbox and wax way, way Religious, but I'm not going to as this is not proper forum for it... (Did I really say that after everything we have been discussing?) 😁

I will not. Please let me know if I've misunderstood something as I do not wish to be Rude or Inconsiderate.

Respectfully,

Rook

Thanks Rook,

Knew you would set me on the right path:)

Spider

Spider,

There are some people who believe that Jesus may have taken Mary Magdalene as his wife, and that they had children (1 Child?) together. I however have not seen any creditable accounts of evidence that confirm this. It's a Topic that bears looking into as so much could ride on the True Facts.

I'm pretty sure that a fictional history of Jesus was used in the Book 'The D a Vinci Code' (sorry for the space it told me D.a was a 'text' expression) and this has influenced popular 'modern opinion' on this topic. Kind of like the whole '3am' being the 'witching hour' has been influenced by popular fictional literature and movies.

But, please research this yourself...here's a couple of starter links...

Http://www.patheos.com/blogs/markdroberts/series/was-jesus-married-a-careful-look-at-the-real-evidence/

Http://www.jashow.org/Articles/historical-Jesus/DaVinci/HJ-davinci-Was-Jesus-Married.htm

Respectfully,

Rook

(All caught up on the new experiences, on to 'Part 2'...)

Redphx,

Your views begin to get more...'interesting' as we go along, once again I shall quote you so any misunderstanding can be avoided.

"Jesus is the only soul thus far who has reached enlightenment. He is actually the "savior" for other beings on other parallels. He tryed to teach us what is right and humans took what he said and used it to control and condemn one another."

So no one in the Bible became 'enlightened' before Jesus lived? What of the 'story of Enoch', who ascends into Heaven without experiencing death. Or what of Non-Biblical individuals such as Buda? Did he 'not get it' as well?

The more you commented the further you seem to 'drift' away from any Biblical Teachings, you state things like this...

"I will never follow the Bible because it has been a tool to murder and push hate."

(I'm going to 'catch a bit of hell for this statement, but here it goes...) So you blame the tool and not the individual (s) using it for the 'abuses' and 'hate' that they 'pushed' on others. That's like saying gun control is need because guns kill people.

You go on to say...

"THe tools that we use here on the physical plane mean nothing. Those stories were written by people. I don't trust many people and I don't know what looney tune wrote those stories. I trust what I know and I trust what I have been taught in the astral to help with my life now..."

With the above quote you begin to deconstruct the things you said about agreeing with Jesus's teachings in the Bible... What Jesus taught were 'tools' to be used by those who came after him, not to manipulate people into 'killing others', not so 'Empires' could be built. His teachings were for those who do not ever remember what they were taught what you call 'the astral'...you continue with this when you stated this...

"I trust what I know and I trust what I have been taught in the astral to help with my life now..."

Most people are unable to do this and need and aid to find their way. Having said that however I must ask this... Just what do you 'believe and or follow'? Is it, as you said...

"I follow what Jesus said..." Or is it what you said here..."I trust what I know and I trust what I have been taught in the astral to help with my life now..."

I feel (personal opinion folks) Jesus did teach in the astral... This was part of the 'other sheep' he mentioned that he had to minister too, but I have to ask this bluntly... Who was your teacher in the Astral? What have you learned? How did you Learn it?

I do agree 'enlightenment' is hard to reach. I also agree that many people get it wrong, they let things like Pride and Greed cloud the issues and they 'wander' off course. This is why these teachings need to be studied (as Jesus_soilder put it) and not simply read. If they are studied with an open mind the Truth can be found.

I'll end this comment by addressing this statement from you...

"now when it comes to people and interactions with ghosts and demons and whatever. If they pray it is not the words that they say that make the being go away from them. It is the power the individual person feels that the prayer gives them. If a person thinks that saying banana will give them safety and protection and the power to defend themselves, saying banana could make the being leave them alone. It comes to the strength of the person not the words that are said."

I do agree with you for the most part, that strength you refer to is called 'Faith'. It is something that is developed over time. It can be taught, to a point, but each individual must find it with-in themselves and many, many people find it in the Teachings found in the Bible as taught by Jesus and other Prophets. The 'power' from with-in themselves works on Negative Spirits and even Non-Human Malevolent Entities, but I (I, I, I, My opinion here folks, and it's a Religious one) feel it takes 'Divine Power' to shift a 'True Demon'. (As taught in the Bible, or in My Opinion... One of the 1/3 of the Heavenly Host that was cast out with Lucifer).

This concludes Part Two... In part three I will address a thing or two Jesus_soilder has stated and the rest of redphx's comments as I believe they warrant commenting on...

Respectfully,

Rook

Rook: Yeah, the ground stretched pretty far out. I hope you can catch up in time. I think your dead on with your comment. I didn't know Luke was that young. I learned something new.

Thank you

Hi Rook

I, myself have not read the bible cover to cover (I have tried but I just couldn't get past Genesis) Anyway, I also heard something along the lines that Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene?
Please correct me if I am wrong...

Spider

I'll start by addressing the things which redphx has commented about... I am not attempting to start a 'battle' merely making observations on things that have been stated...

Redphx,

You begin with some interesting statements, I am going to address them as this moves along and I shall quote you so there is no misunderstanding. Let's start with this...

"Jesus was a man. He is the white light in the form of a man. He came to us that way because we are human. In order for him to be able to tell others how to reach enlightenment he had to take our form. Otherwise we wouldn't have listened. God is not an actual being in himslef. That is why Jesus was sent to us. He was the only one who reached enlightenment and he was telling us the path to do it. "

I have a question about this statement... If God is not a 'Being' then just who 'sent' Jesus to teach us how to reach 'enlightenment' as you put it?

Next you stated this...

"When Jesus came here he didn't tell anyone to follow a religion. In fact he didn't even tell anyone that they had to follow him or die. Humans did that. Humans took what he told us and turned it into something very evil. There have been wars and blood spilled all in the name of God and Jesus. Well considering Jesus was a gentle man this was obviously not his word. That would contradict everything that he taught. The Bible was written by people who were not present at the time Jesus was alive and they wrote the stories in a way that they interpreted them and then Constantinople and a group of old men got together and went through all the written stories and put them together into what is known as the Bible. The Bible is a book full of stories written by people who never knew Jesus nor what he actually said."

I agree Jesus did not tell anyone to follow a 'religion'. You are also correct that it is individual interpretation (misinterpretation) that has caused so many to 'die' for the 'cause'. But to say that the Bible was not written by people who were not present at the time Jesus was alive make me question just what you understand about the Bible and the Books that it consists of. You are correct, a group of people did get together and 'consolidate' many different teachings into one book (and here is where I believe you have a 'misunderstanding' of what is in the 'Books' the Bible contains). The First part of the Bible is the Old Testament... It mentions Jesus in Prophecy, but mostly consists of Historical Stories of the Early days of the Jew's and the hardships they faced as a group of people who believed in a Single God. It tells of their Triumphs and Defeats and how they came to find 'the Promised Land' that was promised them. Moving on to the New Testament. Let's break down the First four books by their names starting with...

Matthew: Matthew was a publican, or tax collector, before he was called as one of the Lord's Apostles. This means he was alive and well when he followed Jesus and gathered 'his stories' which he later wrote down and which were included in the New Testament.

Mark: Mark was much younger than the other writers. His mother was a prominent follower of Jesus Christ. Acts 12:12 tells us that her house in Jerusalem was used as a meeting place for other disciples. Mark was also a follower of Jesus Christ but would likely have been in his teens when the Lord was in Jerusalem. Mark traveled with the Apostle Paul. He then accompanied the Apostle Peter to Rome and stayed by him while he was in prison. Mark is known as Peter's interpreter, both in speech and in writing. As a fisherman from Galilee, Peter may not have spoken Greek fluently, so Mark interpreted for him.

Luke: Luke is an interesting writer because he did not know Jesus Christ personally. He became a follower after the Lord's death, when Paul taught him the gospel. Luke had been a physician, but he left that profession to travel with Paul. He had the opportunity to talk with many of the Apostles as well as others who were eyewitnesses to special events or moments in the Lord's life. In the first few verses of his book, Luke says that he is going to write the things that eyewitnesses and other teachers of the gospel had to say about the Savior.

John: John, or John the Beloved as he was known, served as one of the Apostles. His book was probably written last, as John seems to have already read the other Gospels before he wrote his own book. Often, instead of telling his version of an event or parable the others had already written about, he writes about things the other writers did not include. Also, John's Gospel includes the testimony of John the Baptist. It seems likely that he had some of the writings of John the Baptist.
John was writing to members of the Church, who already knew something of the Lord. John emphasizes Jesus's divine nature as the Son of God.

So to say that... How did you put it again... Ah yes...

"The Bible was written by people who were not present at the time Jesus was alive and they wrote the stories in a way that they interpreted them..."

Of the First 4 books in the New Testament only one of them was written by an individual who had never met Jesus (This would be Luke). So to say what you have said is by and large a pretty big assumption.

Next you make a statement and ask a question...

"Jesus was married. THe Bible contradicts itself (because more than one human wrote it) The Bible preaches that the union between to people in marriage is the representation of the love that God has for us. Everyone is entitled to this love. But the Bible says Jesus was celebate. SO why would "God" refuse this love to "HIS" son. That doesn't make sense."

While I agree that the union between people in marriage is a representation of the Love that God has for us and that everyone is entitled to this Love I have to disagree with your 'observation' that Jesus was married because it doesn't make sense... Jesus was here to teach people to reach... How did you put it... Oh yes...'enlightenment'...and while Love is a BIG part of this message, Lust and 'fornication' can be a distraction from the Love that makes up a Marriage, so while Jesus was Teaching he simply did not allow himself to be distracted from his message by seeking Marriage.

I'm trying to keep up with the new experiences as well as this... I will post here again as that is only the beginning of the ground the two of you managed to cover.

Respectfully,

Rook

Were you living when Jesus walked the earth? I'm curious, because you've made statements about Him.

no one taught me. I basically know what I was taught in astral. I've been on this Earth many lifetimes. I know my souls mind, not just my physical thoughts. My role is to teach others

😆 Oh ok, nevermind, Rook is going to join in. While we're waiting though, who taught you some of this stuff Redphx?

Speaking of Entertaining Strangers... 😲 😉 😁

I'm going to have to read over everything you both have stated during the course of the day so that my response addresses everything you two have covered up to the present time which is 23:25 (11:25pm CST).

So bear with me, I will comment it's just going to take some time.

Respectfully,

Rook

Redphx: I wish we had a sit down and talked, because it's do hard to type on my playstation. Can we finish this discussion on one of your pages though. I don't want to be rude to Rook.

people need to stop blaming and relying on what they are told is good.

Everyone knows it already they just have to trust themselves and look on the inside. People say Jesus saved them and now they are better. No he didn't. People need to give themselves credit. Jesus taught everyone how to be good and they took the advice. But they were the ones who did the work. Jesus didn't come down and hold their hand. They did it themselves. I don't know why people don't see that.

Jesus_soldier

I know most people abuse the word. But my point is, if you didn't have the Bible and didn't even know Jesus. I am certain that you would still be a good person. If you take away all religion and influences all you are left with is your soul. And what you know. That is what people are failing to miss. They are not saved just because they believe in the Bible. Their soul is not light if they used the word to murder and they think it was for a good cause.

You are you. With or without Jesus being in your life. That is what people don't see

you may ask "how do you know any better than what Jesus said as opposed to what is in the Bible?"

The aswer to that is we ALL know what he said. We are not born without knowledge of the teachiings from the astral. We are born with amnesia. We have forgotten and there is a reason for that. Most people live know listening to their brain, not the memory of their soul. The logical aspect of life comes from our physical teachings. Our subconscience is our souls memory and some people have learned to tap into that. We all have morals that our soul carries but most people look to the physical teachings like the Bible to show them what they think they should live like. When they already know what is right and wrong. People have started to look outward instead of inside where the answers lay. We are all connected and before we are born we have the choice to be born or not. We choose our parents and the lessons we want to learn so that we can advance our soul.

There is no hell nor is there a heaven. The weight of our soul determines which level of the astral we will live in. If we choose to be born again to re-learn what we failed to do, we can and change the weight of our soul. Demons are a species born of the lower vibrations and angels are a species born of the upper vibrations. They are there own beings and they are not made to help nor torment good or bad people. Things have gotten very out of hand in this world. It is sad and some people are so lost in their physical mind that I can't even see their soul anymore. It is sad