Comments for Tour Of Jerusalem And Bethlehem: Page 3

Redphx: Thank you so much for your answer, and putting so much thought into it. I want to start off by saying I agree with you on some people being abusive with the Word of God. Not everybody is like that. I love everybody and treat them as I would want to be treated. I wouldn't dare look down on a another person, and condemn them to hell. The Holy Spirit inside teaches me that. I wouldn't dare kiss the pope ring. I'm not even in a denomination. I haven't even found a church yet, because all I see is false teachers, money hungry teachers, etc. A church isn't even a building. The true Church is people that believe in Jesus Christ.

I see a lot that goes on... I even know that the same company that published the NIV Bible version, also published the satanic bible. I know who is in control of this world... Right now. I'm not gullible at all. I want you to know where i'm coming from. I love everybody... I love the cashier at mc donalds. I love gays... I love skin heads...doesn't matter... Now about the Bible.

I can see why people are weary about it. I respect your views. I've read the whole thing... And I have witnessed a lot of stuff firsthand that's in that book. I see so many signs that it's not funny. I didn't get scared into this belief, because of hell either. If that was the case, I wouldn't have acted so bad earlier. I believe because Jesus came into my heart and taught me how to act, treat others, etc. I know that he came on this earth and died a horrific death for us all, our sins. I don't know what you were taught in the astral, but i'm glad you believe in Jesus. I just wanted you to know a little about me and my views.

Thank you for your time

now when it comes to people and interactions with ghosts and demons and whatever. If they pray it is not the words that they say that make the being go away from them. It is the power the individual person feels that the prayer gives them. If a person thinks that saying banana will give them safety and protection and the power to defend themselves, saying banana could make the being leave them alone. It comes to the strength of the person not the words that are said.

so to give you the summary

I follow what Jesus said. Not what a bunch of power hungry humans thought he said.

It is not that I don't believe. This is what I know. My job this time around is very different than my jobs before. I don't really think this is a job in a sense. But knowing what I do and what I've been through is not the same as most people.

Jesus was a man. He is the white light in the form of a man. He came to us that way because we are human. In order for him to be able to tell others how to reach enlightenment he had to take our form. Otherwise we wouldn't have listened. God is not an actual being in himslef. That is why Jesus was sent to us. He was the only one who reached enlightenment and he was telling us the path to do it.

When Jesus came here he didn't tell anyone to follow a religion. In fact he didn't even tell anyone that they had to follow him or die. Humans did that. Humans took what he told us and turned it into something very evil. There have been wars and blood spilled all in the name of God and Jesus. Well considering Jesus was a gentle man this was obviously not his word. That would contradict everything that he taught. The Bible was written by people who were not present at the time Jesus was alive and they wrote the stories in a way that they interpreted them and then Constantinople and a group of old men got together and went through all the written stories and put them together into what is known as the Bible. The Bible is a book full of stories written by people who never knew Jesus nor what he actually said. The Bible was developed to be a tool to control people. Humans are very good at being scared into things and humans are quick to pass judgment. Some of the meanist most judgmental people attend church every sunday.

Jesus was married. THe Bible contradicts itself (because more than one human wrote it) The Bible preaches that the union between to people in marriage is the representation of the love that God has for us. Everyone is entitled to this love. But the Bible says Jesus was celebate. SO why would "God" refuse this love to "HIS" son. That doesn't make sense.

Jesus is the only soul thus far who has reached enlightenment. He is actually the "savior" for other beings on other parallels. He tryed to teach us what is right and humans took what he said and used it to control and condemn one another. The Pope wears a gold ring and makes people kiss it! That is not holy. Shiny rocks mean nothing when we are in the energetic. Good people don't have to follow any sect.

I will never follow the Bible because it has been a tool to murder and push hate. If that book or any other book was never written people would have to think for themselves and be good or bad. The light has to exist when there is dark. And in order for people to advance the way Jesus wanted us to we all have to embrace our dark to understand our light.

THe tools that we use here on the physical plane mean nothing. Those stories were written by people. I don't trust many people and I don't know what looney tune wrote those stories. I trust what I know and I trust what I have been taught in the astral to help with my life now and those who I'm supposed to help. The most evil thing on the planet is organized religion. Everyone interprets that book for themselves. And they use that book to condemn people. Jesus never condenmed anyone.

I respect your views. They are yours and that is what you have been taught. Enlightenment is hard to reach. Jesus showed us the way and taught us how to forgive and be happy and learn. But most people seriously got it wrong and they use his words to punish instead of advance. That is a shame to me

Rook: That's awesome, I can totally see it that way. It makes me think about my experiences with spirits.

Thanks again, appreciate it

Jesus_soldier,

😁

I think the break down of that scripture may even be simpler than you think...

Try IT 'this way'...

Do not be afraid to entertain strangers because you never know if they are an Angel in disguise. I believe that is what this verse is actually saying.

Respectfully,

Rook

Rook: No, your answer wasn't short at all. It is other spirits between heaven and hell, I agree. I use to wrestle with the 'only angels and demons walk the earth' topic, but I know its a lot deeper than that. Oh, that reminds me of this scripture in Hebrew (I'm sorry, I have to ask your thoughts on this right quick).

"Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels." (Hebrews 3:2)

I always notice that it said strangers first. If it was just angels, then it wouldn't be strangers at the beginning. That proves its other spirits around us to me. What are your thoughts, and then ill be quiet for a little bit haha.

Thanks

Jesus_soldier,

No problem, no problem at all. I hope my answer didn't seem 'short' in any way, shape or form. I also look forward to more of them.

I also hope that while the conversation revolved around Biblical Scripture we were able to (or at least I was able to) keep it on topic by mentioning how Biblical Scriptures can 'demonstrate' the possibility of an afterlife that is NOT just 'Heaven or Hell'. There is much more to it than that.

Respectfully,

Rook

Rook: Thank you for giving your time into this study. I agree with those scriptures you broke down. It's really fascinating how deep the Word of God can take people. A enigma wrapped in a enigma. That's why they say 'study' and not 'read' the bible haha. I really enjoyed the conversation bro. I hope we have more down the road.

Thanks again

Jesus_soldier,

You mentioned quite a number of scriptures, let's see how well I can cover them...

Psalm 63:9 and Ezekiel 32:18 say similar things, 'lower parts of the Earth' / 'nether parts of the Earth' I believe refer to 'dying' or 'being put to death.' These 'speak' in metaphors, concerning being 'dead and buried'. The Ezekiel quote goes on to mention 'with them that go down into the pit'...It's my understanding that Ezekiel was lamenting for the fall of Pharaoh and of Egypt... Not only the fact of 'falling = dying' but of them being 'cast into the pit' (pit = hell).

In Numbers 16:30-33, again the 'pit' is mentioned and again it is my understanding that 'pit = hell'. Yet again as you pointed out in Revelations 'Pit' = 'Hell'.

Then you mention Psalm 22, in particular Psalm 22:16-18 which (TO ME) is a Messianic psalm of David, one in which he 'speaks as Christ and foretells events in 'His'life.

Your Ephesians reference is just a metaphorically way of saying 'He who was dead that went to Heaven to fulfill God's Promise to all inhabitants of the Earth.

One thing that does emerge with all these scriptures is the fact that there is a difference between the 'Pit' (Hell) and the 'lower part / nether parts' of the Earth (a Grave or Tomb). They also make one think of what may be 'between' Heaven and Hell... Christ mentioned his 'Other Sheep' when he departed the Disciples... Was he visiting and teaching those 'souls who had died 'before' he walked the earth? Those who had never had a chance to hear his Teachings? Those 'Souls' who had lead good lives, but never received the fullness of the Gospel, and now are being taught in the 'Afterlife', and now from this afterlife they 'reach out' and 'Guide' Family Members towards the 'Path of Righteousness? (Ok, time to wind down, waxing a wee bit two Religious...)

I hope that helps explain, at least in part, where I'm coming from...

Respectfully,

Rook

Thank you Jav 😁,you keep your faith as well. ((50 characters)) haha

😊

Good answer Jesus_soldier. I like the way you put that. Keep the faith.

Jav ❤

Your welcome, I respect you for asking. I think Jesus did do those things. Jesus wasn't a normal man to me though. He's the only begotten Son of God. I look at those miracles as light work, compared to him speaking the world into existence. I know you have different views. It's kind of like somebody calling us mentally ill, because we see spirits. We're not too different.

I want to ask why you have trouble with this belief though. I've read your stories, and you have seen a lot.

Thanks for your time

Thank you for answering.

So, in the stories of the Bible. You believe he literally turned water into wine, walked on water, healed those that couldn't be healed?

Just wondering if your beliefs align with my own

Thank you for giving us the green light Granny 😁, and again thank you Miracles

Nope, I have no reason to crack the whip, in fact I'm enjoying the discussion... Fun to learn sometimes 😊

Thank you Miracles 😁, and your fine. I'm glad everthing is cool, because I don't want to be kicked off here. I'm about to hit my 100th comment 😆.

Redphx, I remember you. I've read your stories before. They are really good. I do believe this stuff is actual historical events. However, not all of it is historical. The book of Revelations talks about the return of Jesus Christ. It does talk about the war in heaven, with Lucifer and Michael though. If you have anymore questions, that's fine.

Thank you for asking

P.S. If Rook wants to add on, that's cool haha. I don't know if you were asking me or him.

Jesus_soldier - and that comment goes to you as well. I didn't mean to exclude you 😊

Rook - this is your story and you've always tried to your best to keep it within the guidelines. I don't see that we have any reason to "crack the whip" here, do you, granny? 😉

If it gets out of hand, we will and everyone knows that 😆 But unless something changes, I don't think there's anything to worry about.

Your welcome Rook, and I also want to thank the mods as well. They could of easily shut us down haha. I look foward to your reply for my last comment. I remember reading this story last year by the way. I hope I can go on a tour soon. That would be too cool.

Not to be rude or naive but do you take the stories that are written in these "chapters" as literal? Meaning they are not merely words to teach people the right way, they are actual historical events?

Jesus_soldier,

Thank You for your reply's and time on this topic. I would also like to thank the Mods and Management of the site for allowing us to have this conversation and not shutting it down due to it's 'religious overtones'. (Promise to keep it as 'on topic' as we can.)

I shall, of course, read these and get back with you... It may be Sunday evening before I can make a full reply, but rest assured I will do so.

Respectfully,

Rook

That is very true Rook. It is better to read the whole chapter. Verses are only pieces of the pie. I thank you for replying back. I will post some verses again, but I will always make sure I cite it for you. You more than likely want to read the whole chapter.

Now about the Matthew verses, I agree with you on Jo'-nas, but I don't think Jesus being in the heart of the earth was the ground. As said in Matthew 27:60- And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock... So I don't believe even if he was buried, it would be in the heart of the earth. 6 ft deep couldn't possibly be the heart of the earth. I want use a couple verses speaking about the lower parts of the earth.

"But those that seek my soul, to destroy it, shall go into the lower parts of the earth." (Psalm 63:9)

"Son of man, wail for the multitude of egypt, and cast them down, even her, and daughters of the famous nations, unto the nether parts of the earth, with them that go down into the pit." (Ezekiel 32:18)

Now do you remember what happen in the book of Numbers? This scripture blows my mind away.

"But if the Lord make a new thing, and the earth open her mouth, and swallow them up, with all that appertain unto them, and they go down into the pit; then ye shall understand that these men provoked the Lord. And it came to pass, as he had made an end of speaking all these words, that the ground clave asunder that was under them: And the earth opened her mouth, swallowed them up, and their houses, and all men that appertained unto Ko'-rah, and all their gods. They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into the pit; and the earth closed upon them: and they perished from among the congregation." (Numbers 16:30-33)

I do believe the pits refer to hell. Revelations even talks about beast coming out of the bottomless pit.

"And in the shape of locust were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men. And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as teeth of loins. And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle. And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months. And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is A-bad'-don, but in the Greek tongue hath his name A-pol'-ly-on." (Revelations 9:7-11)

It even speaks about Satan being thrown into the pit.

"And he laid hold on the dragon that old serpent, which is the devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up," (Revelations 20:2-3)

Now about the Psalms scrpiture, you are correct about King David writting most of it. However, that makes me think about Psalm 22. Was he speaking as Jesus in these next verses? I believe he was, but I don't mean King David is Jesus, just through Jesus Spirit.

"For dogs have compassed me; the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and feet. I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me. They depart my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture." (Psalm 22:16-18)

That's why I believe Jesus was talking about his own soul in that other Psalm.

In Esphesians 4:9, it also speaks about Jesus going into the lower parts of the earth.

"Now that He ascended, what is it but that he also descened first into the lower parts of the earth?" I'll even add verse 10 - "He that descened is the same that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) "

I agree 100% about the Peter scripture. I wasn't too sure about the saying with 'spirits in prison'. If you have anymore questions, I will gladly answer them.

Thank you for your time

Jesus_soldier,

Having said that I must add something concerning a couple of your quotes...

Matthew 12:40... This verse compares Christ being buried in the ground to Jonas being in the belly of the whale because Jonas was 'dead to the world' for the three days he was inside the whale.

Psalm 16:10 Biblical Scholars site David (King David) as being the author of the majority of the Psalm's So he is talking about 'himself' rather than Christ.

Acts 2:31 This refers (again) to David and while it mentions Christ I do not think it means Christ 'went to Hell' for his 'three days'.

1 Peter 3:19 "By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;" if one reads a bit further this chapter goes on to say... 1 Peter 3:20 "Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ"

The prison referred to is that 'in between' state that 'souls' go to between the death of our physical body and the Final Resurrection. Some call this Purgatory. This verse seems to confirm some sort 'afterlife' exists.

Just a few thoughts. Looking forward to your return.

Respectfully,

Rook

Jesus_soldier,

Thank you for the answer, and I look forward to your further inputs into this matter, I will however say this...

Quotes from the bible can be subject to so many interpretations IF you just quote a single verse. I find it very advantageous to read the whole chapter the verse is contained in, or at a minimum one or two verse before and one or two afterwards... The 'extra reading' often 'shines' a bit more understanding onto the quoted verse itself.

Respectfully,

Rook

I will reply back as soon as I can later, because i'm about to get off here. Thank you for being patient.

Thank you for asking Rook, I know your not coming off rude. I want to say a few verses before I give my conclusion on why I think Jesus went to hell those 3 days.

"For as Jo'-nas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth" (Matthew 12:40)

"He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we are all witnesses." (Acts 2:31-32)

"For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption." (Psalm 16:10)

"For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us closer to God; being put to death in flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison" (1 Peter 3:18-19)

I believe He went to hell, because he carried everybody sins. I don't believe he was tortured though. I think he was doing some type of work down there. Some say that he gathered some of the souls from the Old Test. Jesus did get the keys of hell and death. However, a lot of people argue that Jesus didn't go to hell, due to what was said in Luke 23:43 - "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, to day shalt thou be with me in paradise." That brings a question to mind, could He be talking about His Father whom he has prefered to being 'One' with? I do believe in the trinity or as some will say 'Godhead'. I guess it's up to that person how they would view this subject. I do thank you for asking though, it means a lot.

Jesus_soldier,

I'm going to ask this here, so as to not cause 'clutter' on the experience you made this comment on... I want to ask you about this statement you made...

"I hope that isn't all the way true, because Jesus was in hell those 3 days before he rose."

Just where did you get that information from? I ask because it's the very first time I have ever heard that 'theory'. I'm not trying to be rude, but I am really curious about it. Thanks In Advance.

Respectfully,

Rook

Kryodrache,

Please e-mail me with any questions you may have. I'm working on a couple of on-going conversations but I'll be more than happy to add your questions to the ones I'm working on answering.

Respectfully,

Rook

[at] Rook

I want to ask here before I impose, but is it okay if I contact you via E-mail? I have been in a severe state of debate lately about the spiritual world, and you seem knowledgable rather than pieous (sp?) about it as is most cases I come across. I'm curious about what you have learned, what you believe... And also, how one manages an OBE! (Not to mention, puzzled about if an OBE is actually legit, or something along the lines of self-inflicted sleep paralysis.) There's just too many conflicting opinions out there, to the point my own has been beaten down, and I'd like to hear from just one person who has strong ideas and thoughts on the matter. So, let me know if you don't mind me e-mailing you. If not, then... Thanks anyway, for reading:3

-Kryodrache

Exactly! Thanks for putting that so well. I am glad I got here.

adsouza,

It's also the moment that the true Miracles Happen. When one is faced with nothing but despair and instead of rejecting their 'Faith' they turn to it and 'cling' it is then they receive their 'Confirmation' and have the Truth they hold in their Heart Upheld.

Miracles do not happen to convert 'non-believers' they happen so that Believers may receive Confirmation... The 'True Heart' is rewarded so to speak. Ones 'Church' does not matter...it's ones Faith that sustains.

Respectfully,

Rook

Rook,
I know what you mean and where your thoughts come from. I have similar thoughts, just that you are better at wording them. Just this morning over a cup of coffee, my wife and I were discussing the need to have blind faith in something. The discussion ended on something like - As long as one has blind faith, one has hope. When the body becomes physically weak, and the mind no longer is as sharp, the hope comes into the picture and keeps one from totally crashing out. Human nature and it's needs...

adsouza,

Nothing sabotaged here... I opened this experience up a long time ago so that the more 'religious' points some folks were trying to make could be discussed with-out detracting from the original threads they began on.

Religion in and of itself is not bad... A belief. Faith is something is not inherently bad. Where it goes wrong is when groups try to 'box it in', place limits and or go so far as to say 'Our way is the only way'...No One shall receive the whole truth until they 'cross over'. Death is the Great equalizer in this case and there are many 'righteous people' that are going to find themselves more than a wee bit surprised when the End Finally happens.

As far as Christianity goes... It limited itself when a decision was made... Way back in the day... To only teach from a 'selection' of the available writings, and now so many of those 'not chosen' have been lost.

I've even seen a special on PBS that explored the possibility that women played a much larger role in the early Christian Church, but the Priest (men) wanted to make it more 'appealing' to other cultures that were more 'male dominated'. So the 'needs' of man were met... Not necessarily the 'teachings of the Early Church... Apostles? (I hope that makes sense)

Respectfully,

Rook

Jav/ Granny/ Miracles/ MissyM:
First of all - Sorry Rook for sabotaging your post.
I saw an interesting debate about religion. Usually I steer clear of such arguments, however, in the recent past, I have been made very comfortable by the likes of you all mentioned and a few more not mentioned in my first line.
For me, religion is a power game. Always has been. I am not anti-religion. Just that I don't follow any one practice. People who claim to be messengers of God muscle others into believing stuff. I know nobody here (those whose posts I follow regularly) looks down on any other religion. But I have come across people of different faiths who have zero tolerance against the other. This despite the fact that all religions originally preached love and tolerance. Most of us know the history of the church and like every other organization, there are some instances that the church is not proud of. There are similar phases in Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikkhism, etc.
And almost always (I would have said ALWAYS, but I don't have data for all faiths) it is one set of people looking to gain control over a larger mass and everything else stems from there. Everything else - the persecution, wars, financial ups and downs, etc. Starts from here.
Not sure if I make sense to everyone here, and again - this is entirely my opinion. Sincere apologies if I have offended anyone.

Maybe it's a sign? Just kidding... It seems a lot from India as well... Just a 'phase?'

Respectfully,

Rook

I've noticed that a lot of the stores I've recently seen seem to come from Oregon. Not all of them, mind you, but I just keep seeing that state pop up, and it strikes me as interesting...

Ok ok I get it.

Jav I hold no ill will agains you either I just don't agree with you, I will stop our debate cause we are not equally good at english.

Zzgranny that is why I wondered what it takes for a story to get posted in here? (im still wondering) :) pregnant by succubus?

Sorry for causing such a fuss I will let the mods be the police from now on and just enjoy the stories.

Hero

[at] zzgranny,
I am still searching for that episode. I believe it may have been one of the many episodes that are under the title "Mysteries of the Bible". However, the only ones I can find on the History Channel website are the ones they have for sale. When I bring up the description, it only gives a short synopsis of the many stories included on each DVD. Very frustrating!

Jav

Hero,
I see what you're saying. Granny and others make great points without being offensive, but some get a bit too excited (in my opinion) and cross that line between "helpful" and "just plain insulting". I won't name anyone, but the obnoxious, sarcastic, and sardonic tone is something we could all live without.

BTW- Your English is better than many native speakers. I'd love to be bi-lingual...

~S

herohead: A lot of stories begin with "I don't drink or do drugs" because that is one of the most frequently asked questions from our members when trying to ascertain whether a paranormal event has taken place or not, by the O/P's request...You'll find that most people don't post a story until they're familiar with the site and some of the regular posters, and the questions we commonly ask...

When you see the BS Blankie get tossed, thrown, or sometimes hurled forcefully on a story, it's for good reason... Most of us have been on here long enough to recognise the repeat culprets whose former accounts have been banned, not only for posting false stories, but actually admitting they've lied!...We won't reveal our secrets as to how we know, but we definately do 😆...And I for one, never feel the need to apologise for being mean to someone who's a liar, admitted or otherwise...

Herohead,
Personally, I hold no ill will toward you. My only point is this, you complained because others had judged someone harshly. That was your right. Where I live, freedom of speech is #1. Where you got lost, in my opinion, was when you wouldn't let it die. Casting aspersions without naming names, ie 'some people/posters' and 'it's the SAME group every time', is a bit much. I just put it back in your lap, that's all. There are people who would have come forth with apologies to the author afterward, but not if they feel pushed into it.
You were doing the same thing you were complaining others had done. If you can't see that, oh well. But when you act as if you can do no wrong because all you are doing is pointing out the flaws in others? Well, I'll let you figure the rest out.

Jav

~Oh yeah, that line was not made famous in a movie first. It was uttered by Rodney King after the city of Los Angeles broke out in riots, looting and murder when the cops that beat him were let off easy in the first trial. The movies emulate him, not the other way around.

Jav I will try to explain the best way I can.

I think people that call stories for B.S are rude and mean.
I see authors often start stories of eith " I'm normal don't drink and don't do drugs"
To me if people feels the need to start a story like that, it is beacause they know what it sounds like, it isn't easy for all to admit to hearing voices and seeing shadows.

So when I told people off I had these things in mind, I do not see the reason why some people feel the need to kick others already on the ground.
I think that our cultures a very different, and that can cause a lot of mistakes. (coming from the land of the infamous mohammed cartoons I have seen the that can be done by not knowing other cultures well enough)

My own comments earlier would never have caused insults if I had the same debate with a fellow dane.

But ofc I don't know if the way that you comment in here is considered normal where you live (keep in mind I the rude an mean comment was not pointet at you)

In what movie was the famous line spoke "can't we all just get along":-)

Hope I did not confuse you even more
Regards Hero

[at] herohead,
Now I am confused. You state...
"I come from a country where irony and a bit of rough humor is a big part of the debate culture"
Was that statement an explanation of your previous comment? If so, why would the same rough humor and hints of irony be so offensive to you?
Is there that much of a difference in what constitutes rough humor in our respective cultures? So that you find our humor offensive and we feel that same offense at yours?
AND, do you suppose we would feel just as comfortable as you seem to feel in criticizing our "rough humor", were we to criticize yours in the same manner?
Example:
" I tire of being on a "open minded" ghost story web side where the openmindedness only applies to some people. Again I want to stress that I don't mind people not beliving, or being skeptics, but I simply don't get the people in here are such Hypocrites, willingly beliving in god and angels, and then being rude to people here that are trying to share a story"
OR:
"I have since yesterday read multiple forum treads and found that it is mostly the same people that doing this.
The "victims" are mostly teenagers.
Some are quite rude and even mean, it often ends up in a group hatred tread instead of simply a comment"

The reason I cite the comments above is because I am confused at how to translate the tone of the comments as being either "rough humor" or "irony".
Maybe you are correct in asking if it is simply a difference in cultures, eh?

Jav 😕

Okay javelina, I was not aware but thank you flr clearing that up for me, I come from a country where irony and a bit of rough humor is a big part of the debate culture.

Pleas feel free to correct me if I make such an error again.
Maybe some of the forum post seems so harsh to me beacause of the difference in cultures?

:):):) Hero

I'm Protestant, but found the book that you linked to very interesting granny. Thank you for the link even if I wasn't the intended recipient.

Jave: I have found an apocryphal Gospel that you'll find interesting... And seeing how it's not included in the canonical version of the Gospel, I understand why it's not common knowledge, as it's not part of the "official" story 😊

Http://www.fisheaters.com/protoevangelium.html

[at] zzgranny,
I'm trying to find it. I find my curiosity is driving me to Google as well. 😆
What I recall, is they were referencing a passage that claimed Mary had been examined by a midwife during her pregnancy, and the midwife used her finger to confirm the hymen was still intact. And according to this passage, it was.
Sorry to anyone offended by the graphic nature of my comment.

Jav

~The name and date of the episode escapes me now, but I too, am searching...

Jave: As I'd mentioned to MissyM on the other thread this subject intregues me... In fact I find it fascinating...I'm pretty sure as far as Google is concerned, the passage I was searching for isn't available, or I didn't look deep enough... I may have to search for the book of Maryam and read the whole thing 😆...Or, it may not be in that particular book of the Qur'an at all...

Do you remember the name of the episode?...It sounds pretty good, maybe they have it on line?...

MissyM: I'm sorry, I mis-spelled your name in the post on the other thread LOL...Didn't see it until it was too late 😆

#MissyM,
You are correct in your statistics of religious followers. I was wrong. Ta-Da! 😊
That being said, I still hold the opinion I gave earlier about why Christianity is seen an easy target for criticism. Because of the strong emphasis on forgiveness in the Christian faith, it leaves itself open to criticism. Not such a bad thing, if you ask me.

Jav

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_by_country
According to the above there is as of 2012 1.5 billion Catholics in the world.

Http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religious_populations
According to the above Christianity is the leading religious faith with 1.9 billion followers.

Now I know I read somewhere that Roman Catholics populated above most religions combined but can't find where I saw that. Wiki contradicts that so I may have been wrong but was right that there are more Catholics with 1.5 billion then all other faiths. Just maybe not combined.
😁

MissyM,
I would agree as I myself was raised a Catholic and had some pretty eye opening revelations about the church growing up. However, the church clinging to certain dogma is one thing, the fact that they stopped the practices of old, (ie...the Inquisition being the worst), and have admitted their wrongs in that matter, along with the promise of it not allowing it to occur again, doesn't make it alright, in my opinion, that others still use such horrid practices even today.
Also, I believe you may have the facts wrong on the numbers of followers to these religions. But I am going to check that now, and will come back with what I have found.
Basically, because they did it in the past, and have since halted those practices, it still makes Christianity the target? I still say no. If those practices make them the target they are, why then, do others who still cling to that same barbarism, get a pass?

Jav

MissyM and herohead - from Martin once before when this conversation came up: "We had a chat room, and it was a big source of pain because of abusers, so I ended up closing it down, but we never had a forum yet, which I often wondered if we should. I'm concerned it might detract from the original mission of this site, but it might be worth the test some day."

I'm not sure if he still feels the same, but thought I'd put this out there, just in case.

There are more Roman Catholics in the world than there are believers of any other religious Group. Not only are there more Roman Catholics than all other Christians combined, but more Roman Catholics than all Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus...ect...
The Catholic Church played a big part of history and everything they did wasn't always good. So, I think it is easy to criticize Christianity due to the mere size and history of the religion. The Catholic Church for one is not very open minded to other religions or beliefs that don't mirror there own. I for one am Roman Catholic but don't follow all paths. I have already been told that I will not be going to heaven do to my life choices (child before married...lol) I feel now that times are changing and that the world is inevitably becoming more open-minded. I really hope that over time as the older generation passes the new Roman Catholic generation make drastic changes to the way the church is being run.

[at] zzgranny,
The information about the virgin birth and Mary's virginity came from the History channel. It may not be Google, but this program was very enlightening. There were scholars, Religious leaders from the three faiths that sprung from the same region, and theologians. All agreed on the validity of the passage I refered to as coming directly from the Quran. There was also information that the virgin birth of Jesus was not the first on record. It was the consensus view of these same scholars that Mary herself was the result of a virgin mother giving birth. This was something I had never known before either. But it was a consensus view from these noted scholars, and I found it fascinating that it wasn't common knowledge.

Jav

[at] herohead,
The comment you made about the mother of Jesus can be construed as disrespectful, especially to those who adhere to the Christian faith. I don't mind the debate, but I do find it fascinating that, of all religions, Christianity seems to take the brunt of all criticism.
"The virgin mary got pregnant by some ghost, and that is for some people the honest truth. So why not!?
Ask the ghost for condoms mext time."

There are plenty of religions and belief systems out there that have some very questionable claims that their followers see as the one truth as well. So, why is it that Christianity gets the lions share of criticism? It is my opinion that because Christians are encouraged to forgive the tresspasses of others, to turn the other cheek, that so many feel free to speak their minds about what they find to be unbelievable in the Christian Dogma. Whereas, on the other hand, these same critics are not only less apt to criticize the Muslim faith, they will stand ready to defend it. Is this done out of fear? Weakness?
A Christian pastor in Iran is going to be put to death for not denying his faith in Jesus. Is the rest of the world going to sit back and pretend it doesn't matter? After all, it is only a Christian.

As I said before, I am not speaking as an advocate for any religion here, I am speaking as an observer of the situation as a whole.

Jav

100% vote yes to YGS CHATROOM
A chatroom would allow people to talk and not take away from OP's stories.

I followed javelinas link iin here, it really seems to me that we need a chatroom in here:)

Regards Hero

Kryodrache - short true experiences are much better than long fictional ones. So, please, don't hesitate about sharing yours, okay? As you've said, some of these recent ones are certainly questionable.

zzsgranny:

I was actually a little bit of both. Relieved, because it was all "Oh, good, no big bad purple people eater is about to attack me." And a little disappointed, because I'd really hoped to see something. As it is, right now, my sister seems to suspect there is a benign ghost in the house with us. I've never seen much about it, but...

There was ONE event that I thought was really kind of weird. I might post another story up here, about it, even though it's a little bit short...

Kryodrache: In my opinion, and from my own experiences, I believe it's the simplest, tiniest things that are the most convincing 😆...Fear is a normal reaction, and anyone in their right mind (sorry, can't accuse me of THAT! LOL!) would/should be... And there's really no shame in admitting that... The thing is, the more you experience, the more you come to understand that what you perceive to be fear is actually the adrenelin rush (and it's addicting 😆)...I think it's a natural reaction when your primodial instincts kick in...

Keep questioning yourself, it's good to do that...

Let me ask you: when you figured out the situation with the door, what was your reaction immediately afterward?...Did you feel relieved, or kind'a let down?...If you felt a little let down, then I think you can probably put aside the thought that you harbor a lot fear, and admit that you're becoming an adrenelin junkie like the rest of us LOL 😊

I think I might do that, zzsgranny. I'm in a good place for it. We have quite a few infamous haunted houses, here, as well as an odd vortex spot that I have been interested in checking out... Something about a skewed building that somehow makes someone visually shrink upon entering it. (I live in Oregon, and it's called the Oregon Vortex.)

I see all these stories up here, and so many of them look so... Surreal. My own experiences have been few and far between. Glimpses, really. I think the most startling one that I've seen was when I was walking to lunch one day... And in a flash, quicker than an instant, the world around me turned dark red. I saw fire, I saw smoke, red rock... Vaguely, I might have seen pillars, or at least stalactites/mites, and all sound stopped for that briefest of moments. And then I was back in school in a state of shock. That could have well been my imagination, however... Since a young age, I've always been quite imaginative. Almost too much so, at times. While the paranormal interests me, I also am scared by it... Which, I suppose, is normal. It's the unknown. Human nature is automatically afraid of the unknown. It could even be something really, really simple... For example, my door started vibrating on its hinges earlier, and for some reason I got a thrill of fear to watch it do that. I'd never seen that before, I had no idea what was going on! The relaxation came flooding back immediately when I heard footsteps on the other side. My house has a lot of people living in it, so I'm never alone, here.

Sorry, went off on a tangent, there... I just find this stuff interesting. I love to go into theories, delve into psychology, the unknown, see what makes sense and what doesn't. And I particularly love this site, and your guys's comments, because it's some of the stuff I love to read: mostly, because it makes me think. I tried the whole 'simple life' thing, before. Just didn't do it for me. And to be really honest?...Ghosts scare me a lot, lot less than humankind in general. That could both be weird, and make sense at the same time.

It's really ironic that I chose to come to this site around the same time I got a certain history class around the Crusades, black plague, and renaissance. It's all art history, and 99.9% of the art I've seen so far from it are religious in nature. Christian, of course. But I've seen a few things that made me think. I see people speaking of exorcisms and cleansing methods here, all the time. When I heard about the 'prayer warriors' in the monasteries, back then, I would have laughed... But now I think, maybe there was some merit to them, after all. They certainly had the best places for meditation. I wonder, did -they- astral project?

Kryodrache: Is there proof?...We could spend hours or days reading stories, looking at pictures/video, or listening to EVP's and still not be convinced because of the human factor... All these things can be manipulated, and there are attention seekers, or those who just want to ammuse themselves at the expense of others' beliefs... I mentioned in a comment a while ago that I know people who've been in the field of paranormal research for 30+ years, and they're still looking for proof, some of them with credentials and degrees as thick as a New York phone book... And not one of them, for all the research, experiments and gadgets they've designed and built and tested, would claim to be an "expert"...

For me, it's my own experiences that have me convinced... I don't feel the need to prove anything to anyone, but that's probably because I can't 😆...

You ask if the survival instinct plays a part in holding someone back from crossing over... Although that's a great theory, and a question I'll pose to some of my friends in a dicussion group, I would have to say in my opinion, no... Anecdotal evidence (which, at this time, is all we have) from those who've had NDE's suggests that it's extremely heart and soul wrenching to be turned away and sent back to their bodies...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what you're looking for is personal validation... And messin' with an Ouija board ain't going to do it (You knew that was coming 😆)...Just the fact that you've opened your mind to the possibility of paranormal phenomena is a step toward experiences... You have a good head on your shoulders, and I'd like to suggest you find a paranormal investigation group in your area that accepts apprentices, or form your own group...

Kryodrache,

I agree with both Miracles and Nysa on their points. I do find myself a bit more vocal on certain topics than others which is why individuals get invited here to this thread so that things may be 'hashed out' so to speak.

I'll address some of your points directly... You mentioned Astral Travel and OBE's and asked how can one tell if they are 'real'.

FOR ME Astral Travel is validated for me if/when I attempt it I get up feeling like I had been 'working out'. I'm sore...tired...and drained. Astral Travel happens in/on the spiritual plane.

OBE's these can be tested as they deal with an individual's spirit/psych leaving ones body but remaining in/on the physical realm. This can be tested... Pick a location to travel to... Have a friend place an object there, something unknown to you and then 'project' yourself. If if all goes well you will see the object and be able to tell your friend what it was. Remote viewing works kind of the same except the work with 'blind targets/locations'. OBE'S are a bit different than Remote viewing and 'Near Death Experiences' are a type of OBE.

Hope that makes some sort of sense.

Respectfully,

Rook

Kryodache my first thought is; no not stupid at all! One thing you wonder about is proof. No there certainly is not any proof. It is entirely possible that all supernatural phenomena has a natural (as already understood by study of the natural world) explanation. It's also possible that it has a supernatural explanation that has absolutely nothing to with the afterlife or souls surviving after death. In my opinion when you decide that you know anything for sure you have fallen for something. Sometimes reading these accounts reminds me of that. So many are clearly made up, clearly a misinterpretation, or clearly something that the poster only believes because they are too deeply buried in their belief system to see outside of it. But that means that my observations can be incorrect too. One thing that helps me keep things in perspective is ancient philosophy. Nobody seriously considers the possibility that all we experience could be an illusion but nobody has proven that wrong as far I can tell. I am no expert by any stretch of the imagination, but re-reading it sure helps me.

You mention fear. I often joke that the existence of the soul is either a fact or a sick mistake of evolution. I consider it entirely possible that our concept of the soul & the afterlife is a horribly over-developed survival instinct. Perhaps we are so conscious of our existence & of physical death that our survival instinct convinces us that we must survive the death we know is inevitable.

I think all we can do is collect data, attempt to weed out flawed data, & consider the many possibilities. We will most likely all find some theories we will accept, at least as the most plausible we have encountered so far on each issue. But if we come to "believe" it, we will have a very hard time seriously considering alternatives when they come up. I modify Socrates slightly by saying - all I know is that I know nothing & neither does anyone else. And those are my brief thoughts on your post. 😉

Kryodrache - I don't have time tonight to get into anything more than your first paragraph, although I did read your whole post. Twice.

I, also, find myself doubting the validity of some of the stories on here and I ask myself if I have the right to decide if their story is real or fake. Some of them can be so obviously made up, that it's easy to know they're completely full of it. Those stories you won't see. But these that are published? There's that thin line there somewhere. Maybe it's just the decision to help someone see that there could be something other than a paranormal reason for what's going on.

And then some of them. Well, we give the o/p the benefit of a doubt and hope we aren't wrong. Sometimes, as you can see, we've been wrong.

Shew, I need to stop now. It's my bedtime and I'm starting to think in circles and make even less sense than I normally do 😆.

Hi, guys. I've been in a bit of a spot lately, today, that I guess everyone goes through. That human doubt that attacks the mind and leaves you desolate and empty, all that. Lately I've been seeing a lot of stories posted on here that have been thought of as fake. And despite having an experience myself, I find myself thinking... 'Is there proof?'

Stupid of me, huh? I've been reading around about astral projection, and I've been wondering... Is there proof that this is valid, or are they flights of fancy, of imagination, or dreams? How can one be certain they experienced an OBE, and not a 'hallucination' as so described by science?

I'd like to know your guys' thoughts on the matter. I often feel like I won't know, for sure, until I have a serious experience, a strong one, that I can look back to and acknowledge. I've found myself tempted to go ghost hunting, even to look up the rules of an ouija board (which I'll bet you guys will jump on pretty quick:P) in the hope to find something really solid and believable. I wish I could explain it more... But all I have is this, written down on my notepage at a moment of revelation one morning:

"It is the instinctual body of nature that fears death. But sentience has two parts; body and mind. The soul knows of life after and will leave the body behind. Thus, fear is only natural to a vessel knowing itself finite, that survival instinct that led humanity to adapt to a rough existence."

I had this thought either really late at night or really early one morning, I forget when... And took it into consideration as I continued to read stories about the paranormal. Maybe that fear was a major part in keeping some spirits here, as though they couldn't quite believe what had happened, and were still afraid to pass on lest see nothing beyond, and needed help to find a guiding hand home. Maybe it's their version of purgatory. Are they being judged? I recently read an excerpt that exclaimed a soul would feel 'normal' once released from the body... But they wouldn't be able to really percieve, because it had only sensed the world through a material body. They could be in the massive stereotypical, cloudy, angel-singing heaven, for all they knew, but they wouldn't see it, because they wouldn't know how to look for it. Just a thought.

Another thing I saw earlier got me to thinking, as well. It depicted two unborn babies in the womb, talking to each other... Just a picture someone had made. One baby was saying to the other: "Do you believe in Mom and life after the womb?" while the other responded with "Nahh. I mean, has anyone ever seen Mom?" I thought it was an amazing analogy and just stuck with me for a while.

I'm curious to know your guys's thoughts, from people I know won't harass me for this kind of subject.

dmcal,

Welcome and well met. I write this on one of my experiences so as to not detract from 'Brian's' original thread as I am pretty sure where this is going to go.

You've made a pretty bold statement when you said this...

"The powers of darkness has everyone believing that human spirits wander around after death by appearing as human apparitions or by sight, sound, smell or by any other sense, which is why everyone is now seeking after them."

While you are entitled to your opinion may I ask how you came to form it?

I would also ask how you can explain things from a 'Godly' point of view?

("Allow me to explain something from a Godly point of view. ") Are you so full of Pride you presume you can Speak for 'Him?'

Respectfully,

Rook

Rook,
Even the cat's name was way before it's time. It's funny how much the Sci-Fi writers of the past have influenced our lives. Definitely hella-cool.

Jav 😆

Jav,

I couldn't help mentioning him... We are packing up our stuff cause we close on our house on the 17th and I had just packed my books... So when I read about the dog it remeinded me of Pixel... The cat who walks through walls...

Rook

Rook,
I'm bringing it over here for a second. You have brought back some pretty cool memories by bringing up Heinlein. I read as many of his writings as I could get my hands on once I read Stranger in a strange land. That guy was the best! He was my favorite for years! Now I feel I may have to go back and reread his stuff. After all these years it's bound to be a whole new outlook for me. Thanks for bringing him up. I don't think I've read anything of his since the late 1970s. Man! It's been a while!

Jav 😁

Kryodrache,
You humble us with your praise. And you fit in just fine.

Jav ❤

Kryodrache,

If you have gone back and read all 5 plus pages of comments here as well as my orignal experience then you are the one who deserves Hugs and Cookies... 😆

Well Met and Welcome to YGS.

Respectfully,

Rook

You people... You guys are so smart. No, really. Reading through all these discussions... You guys are all very intelligent people, and I'm so happy to have stumbled upon this site. This discussion really had me thinking, and pondering, and agreeing... I don't think I've seen a subject like this analyzed so well, before. Each of you are truly an inspiration. I know I'm still the new girl sticking her foot in the door of an unknown community, still... And even if I were not to fit in, socially, I would still stay to read these comments, learn, and listen. Hugs and cookies for all ❤

[at] zzsgranny

...Oh o_o

*Feels like a brainderp* My bad. *Sneaks off to the previous comments page* 😐

Kryodrache,

Thank you for your observations on what I orignaly published here. As Granny has stated this has become... Let me just say I have asked many folks to come on over and discuss things if a debate had broke out and it had drifted away from the O/P's oringnal experience.

I also want to thank the others who have dropped in and said something...it's not often anyone drops in for a discussion or debate with me when I offer to do so.

Nysa,

While I now belong to a certain Church and have been Ordained as a Teacher and hold the Priesthood for it. I can not say that what I have stated is from any Single Church or Belief system... The veiws I put forth are my own, developed after many years of experiences, study, and to be blunt Prayer. They have not conflicted with anything I have learned with the teachings/beliefs of the Church I belong to though I must admit there are Teachings within my chosen Faith that I do not understand and need more time to study so that I may understand them.

Do I have all the answers? No not by any means... Do I claim to be an expert? Heck no! Does what I believe seem kind of simplistic at times...perhaps...then again why shouldn't it be. People seem to make simple things so complicated when there is not really a need to.

Let's see if this helps a bit... The following link is to something I posted on one of the Sister sites for this one. It may help bring understanding on just what I'm talking about...

Http://www.psychic-experiences.com/real-psychic-story.php?story=6281

Let's keep this going folks, good stuff here...😆

Respectfully,

Rook

OKAY!
I do believe that Jesus when he left the earth he was in spirit form... Everything before I'm not so sure of. Since I believe that the bible was distorted over the years I do believe Jesus died, came back in spirit and rose up to heaven, everything inbetween is a little foggy for me. Nothing is set in stone sorta speak.
Spirits I believe can range from human spirits that don't want to go to judgment, to spirits left to rome the earth because there half breeds (in the old testiment there were half angels and half humans who can't go to hell or heaven so their spirits roam the earth), God comes to the earth in dreams and visions, the Holy Spirit is something like the consience, and Angels are either fallen or helpful messengers that are not to be worshiped.
I'm nondenominational. My culture has a lot to do with it since I do believe my grandfather worshiped God the way my culture has been since the beginning.
No, I don't believe in reincarnation, sure we will live a different life once we die. Our spirit will continue to live either in one of the heavens or locked with the fallen.
Why not reincarnation? Because there are so many people poppin out that have died and came back to earth and expierenced one of the heavens and hell. Sure there was one time where I was watchin some lady preach about our previous lives and how each of us had them. She also stated who their loves and when they would meet them and a whole other bunch of twisted things that made me want to call her and pay her a million dollars for a session. But being a believer in people who talk to God I asked (for its stated in my religion knock and the door shall be opened to you, seek and you shall find, ask and you shall recieve...) "Why do I feel gravitated to call this lady but in my heart I know the truth that what she's stating isn't true to what I believe?" The answer I found was that of the fallen. This lady spoke to the 1/3 of the fallen for they live on forever in this world and they gravitate to humans and since majority of the time they cannot posses they follow and record then they speak to that lady and tell her what they saw and what the previous peoples lives were like.
I would write more but my time at the library is runnin out *sigh*. Untill next time.
❤ Qt

Kryodrache: LOL! It only seems like there are no relevent comments... If you go to the bottom of the thread, there is a link that says "read previous comments"...Believe it or not, there are 5 pages... This is our "go to" page, when other threads take a turn away from the original, we come here to discuss it rather than clog someone else's thread...

If you ever get bored, there are some really interesting discussions here if you can make it through all five pages... One other note, the pages run from oldest to mostt current, so to see the begining, you have to go to the LAST page first, and so on... 😊

I don't think one person here has actually posted something in relevance to the ghost story above.

I personally believe that family has strong psychological links, sometimes VERY strong ones, where someone can recognize an unspoken word, feeling, or emotion completely unrelated to their own feeling at that one moment in time. I've experienced it, myself, where I automatically knew what my mother wanted or needed when I wasn't even in the same room. Sometimes I'd just walk through the house to go give her a hug because I knew she was having a rough day, just out of the blue. I could just feel it.

Having a child is a big thing. There is extreme psychological attention even before a kid is born. I think that seeing her face, hearing her name spoken before she was even born... It's made me reconsider just how early a soul will inhabit a new body. I always figured it was just fragments, at that age, being placed together, piece by piece. I think your daughter just wanted to see her parents before she left. Sad, but enlightening.

As for the other incident... I don't know much about that, yet, so I can't answer that well. Though, by now, I'm sure you've gotten a few insights, as this was posted a few years ago.

I don't think you can answer these questions without sounding "preachy." I appreciate your willingness to explain your understanding of Christian mythology. You say you can't speak for other faiths, if you don't mind sharing, is this understanding the official stance of a particular denomination? I understand if you don't want to mention specific faiths. It's just that it varies in some significant ways from what I have encountered before. My experience is pretty limited, just what I have heard from friends & family of a few Protestant faiths, a couple of undergraduate philosophy of religion classes, a little history of utopian societies & the beliefs of the Catholic church & Reformation leaders as it relates to historical events. I vaguely recall the part about reincarnating to learn God's truths from the writings of an early Christian theologian but I can't recall who it was.

Nysa,

I can't quite speak for other 'Faiths' but what I have come to understand is this...

All Spirits (Souls) were 'created' by...Let's call Him the 'First Intelligence' most Organized Religions call them Angels... Then you have the 1/3 that sided with Lucifer and were cast out with him... Most Organized Religions call these Fallen Angels (Demons) and they will never know 'true life' in a physical body...it's why they work so hard to posses people.

After the 'Lucifer' incident the 'First Intelligence' wanted a way that those remaining Angels could prove their 'Faith'...thus He created Physical Bodies for them to inhabit... Their own choices would show if they were 'good' or 'evil' and 'which side' they were on. When the Spirit (Soul) crosses the veil between the Spiritual and the Physical it's memories of it's Spiritual Life are 'erased' and must be discovered during ones physical life.

When our physical body passes away our Spirit (Soul) is released... At this stage there are certain things that can happen... If our Spirit's have 'rediscovered' those 'Truths' we knew before crossing the veil and inhabiting a physical body that had been prepared for us. Having rediscovered these things they can now act as Guides, Guardians or provide Comfort to Family members that are still living. This shall be done until Judgement Day when the Spirit (Soul) shall be reunited with it's 'Perfected Body' to stand Final Judgement.

For those Spirits (Souls) who did not redescover what they knew before they crossed the veil the cycle of re-incarnation takes effect and they return to another physical body... Some may even remember something of their first (or other previous lives) which of course is what comes out during a past life regression.

Then there are those Spirits (Souls) who during this experience choose to reject the 'Truths' that were known before crossing the veil... When their Physical Body dies they do just the opposite of those who become Guides, Guardians... They 'hang' around scaring people, wearing them down 'setting' them up for worse 'visitations' ect.

You asked about the Body of Christ at the time of his Resurrection...I've referred to it as his Perfected Body... This being a physical body that has been transformed in order that it shall be able exist in the Spiritual Realm. This was the Body Christ Received after His Resurrection and until he Crossed the veil the First time no one could touch Him... After crossing once He was able to return and interact with the Living.

But here I go again sounding Preachy, sorry folks, just trying to answer questions here. 😊

Respectfully,

Rook

Thanks Rook, it seemed relevant to the poster's line of questioning but then I felt like I may have opened a can of worms. So, that is complicated. I am a bit confused. In the first part of that account was he a spirit or in the body he walked the Earth in? Or neither? And in the after part of the account Jesus has a "special" body (to use a generalized term) that was a physical body exactly like his living body but capable of existing in the afterlife? Is this interpretation generally accepted regardless of denomination?

Nysa,

I'll answer your question here rather than highjack that thread of comments...

When Christ appeared to the Disciples the first time after his Death (Crucifixion) they rushed towards Him but He forbid them from touching Him because He had not yet ascended into Heaven and He was in His 'Perfected Body'... And if He would have been touched before Ascension He would have been unable to as no unclean thing may ascend to Heaven and as stated above, Christ was in His 'Perfected Body', the body we will receive at the time of the Resurrection when our Spirit (Soul) is reunited with our bodies on Judgment Day.

After He ascended and returned He was then able to let Thomas touch the Holes in His Hands and Feet... Which were part of Christ's Perfected Body for 'proof' that He was indeed Resurrected. Once in Heaven He was able to return and interact with people and return because 'Law' had been changed with his Death, Resurrection, Ascension and Return.

I sound very Preachy at the moment, but the only way to really answer your question is to touch on Religious Topics.

I hope I have made some sort of sense. I'll now open the floor to questions...

Respectfully,

Rook

[at] Nysa,
Yeah, I've noticed you have an attack mode that matches mine. 😆 😆
I've also noticed how the place takes notice at those times too! 😆
Guess you could say we attract attention? That's why I like the nights over here. More time to think about my response to a challenge. Day time is too populated for my taste really.

Jav

I agree Javelina, when someone forces the issue & insists on spewing ignorance I am more than happy to meet them with all I have.

[at] Nysa,
I feel the same way, and try to keep all faith or practice out of my comments, whenever possible, of course. It muddies the waters and sends people into tailspins. But when someone comes as blatantly as dogboy... Well, then it's anybody's game. Open season, so to speak. 😆

Jav 😉

Spooky stuff indeed Jav, and now Granny is off to Alcatraz I think you may meet Marjie in there as well Granny I heard she was watching it earlier. We will hold the fort eh Jav! 😁

Javelina I am not sure if I have ever said outright that I am a practitioner or not. Though both my practice & my religious beliefs heavily influence my beliefs about "ghosts" & the otherworld in general, I try to be light-handed with talking about it here because I really believe we are here to come together in understanding despite barriers like different religious beliefs. If someone mentions a belief system in their story I try to tailor my responses to what is relevant to them. And though I tend to get offended when people try to cast magical practitioners in a negative light, I aim to stand up for any belief system that is being bullied. Now I am rambling. I thought you seemed to have a personal knowledge of such practices. All three siblings have different belief systems in my family so I know how that transference of knowledge works.

Granny I am always extremely happy when I can pass on knowledge or understanding so thanks for letting me know I helped. 😁 😁

I'm haunting for now... But not for long, I'm going to watch Alcatraz...Sorry, see ya', bye! 😆 😆

DARKNESS,
Yeah, all of a sudden it was like a graveyard in here! Spooky stuff! 😆

Jav

Hahaha Jav think everyone is asleep, I think Dogboy has dissapeared also! 😆

Geeez! Don't stop just because I showed up.
I won't bite you know.

Jav 😆

Unless, of course, you want me to. 😉

Sorry, I left out the most important thing. My sisters do not worship Satan. Never have, never will. That's just the trith of it all.

Jav

Rook,
Thanks for opening this thread again. It helps to have this one be our "go to" for these instances.
[at] Nysa,
Thank for revealing that about yourself. I am not sure if you ever had done so previously, if so, I missed it. Although, I did have my suspicions. And I don't mean anything other than I have seen similarities in your personality that are familiar to me Now, just to be fair, and Rook is the only one who knows this, two of my older sisters are witches, not wicca related either. That comes down from the Aunts on my fathers side. Two of them were also witches. And no, there is no tradition about it having to be two at a time. If it was, they're in bad shape, because of all the kids in my family, I'm the only one that has more than one daughter. It isn't something anyone has been pressured into either. When they became interested, they knew who to go to, that's all. And the only reason I have stepped between the wicca and the O/P in previous stories posted here, was to slow down thje gang up on the poster. I'll do it when ever I feel it gets out of hand. That's just the way I am. Yeah, I'm just babbling now, so that's all I wanted to say. Have a good one.

Jav
Looks like I missed all the trolls...

dogboy,

A friend, would you be so kind as to tell us what kind and how many years of study/experience this friend of yours has?

I was raised in two different Churches... Roman Catholic and Baptist (Southern) and at the age 12 broke from both... I didn't understand how the Roman Catholics could drink lots of beer during their Fall Fair on Saturday attend Church and Confession on Sunday morning and go right back to the Fall Fair and drink more (and lots of it) beer. Seemed very hypocritical to me. As far as the Baptist Church goes... By the age of 12 I didn't want to be told what the Scriptures meant I wanted to read them and make up my own mind... Seeing as free will seems to be a basic part of 'Church' teachings this seemed reasonable to me... The Pastor didn't think so and I was asked not to come back... From the age of 12 until I was 23 I followed my belief in Heavenly Father and His Son but I was a Solo Practicing Witch. I studied about Wiccan's, I studied about Islam, I studied the Greek, Roman and Norse Mythologies and some Druidism as well. My Experience is wide and varied so I hope you understand why I am asking about your friends knowledge base and experience.

Make no mistake I am no expert... Just someone who has kicked around... I have re-joined a Christian Faith based Church and am an Ordained Teacher and Priesthood holder.

Respectfully,

Rook

Nysa: Thank you for the clarification, I still have a lot to learn 😊

A friend? Oh boy.
I hope that in the future, you'll have the intelligence to question this friend's theory's reagarding religion. He could not have been more wrong comparing the practice of a Wiccan to that of a Satanic cult.

Nysa, I got my sources from a friend who knows a lot more than I do about the subject.

I notice that you, dogboy have been asked several times for the source of your information, but only answer with your opinion. Does that mean you made it up or simply infered it from sources unrelated to Wicca & witchcraft?

Sorry if I am muddying the waters granny, but I am a witch (though not a Wiccan) who has invoked gods, which I understand as inviting the energy of a god to enter me, before. And I know a few Wiccans who consider the common practice of Drawing Down the Moon to be an invocation. If people like dogboy choose to believe that is being possessed by demons or Satan, well they have the right to be wrong just like I do. Speaking from experience I feel confident in saying no demons or gods I did not intend were involved.

I did get someone who kept insisting I was worshipping Satan to explain themselves once. It seems some people hold on to the medieval belief that Pagan gods are "the devil in disguise." So they believe those who follow any god but what they call the real God to be worshipping Satan, even if inadvertently. Though I find this illogical, I kind of understand why they cling to the belief. So I agree with Rook's accusation where dogboy's offense originally took place. What he was guilty of was putting out as fact his own opinion of the beliefs of others & disregarding the terms of service of the website by presenting his belief as fact. Something that others are currently guilty of on the recently posted story titled In the presence of Him, incidentally. Actually it has happened a lot recently. I guess either people don't read the rules or think THEY don't have to follow them.