Should I Be Scared?

I have to say, I rather with ParanormalSurvivor here - I would be encouraged to follow him, provided your gut picks up no need to fear him. It does seem as though he's trying to show you something. Do you know what is at the end of the road where you saw him gesture to you?

Hi, Jones:

I was browsing for updates, when I read ladydarke's most recent addition to the conversation. I'm more than a little surprised that I missed so many mythological/folkloric implications to the toilet lid; I'd like to thank ladydarke for her seriousness and vigilance.

I was not dismissing Indigo's suggestion based upon the potential for scatological humor (which I *did* imply in my response) as much as for its inclusion in a list of activities which may or may not have any connection to each other, let alone your original experiences. After I posted my initial comments, I recalled seeing David Attenborough's visit to an Indian temple which was overrun with rats because those who worshipped there thought that rats were the reincarnated souls of desceased loved ones. I had not intended to be dismissive of any religious beliefs, nor of any narrative potentials (such as folklore), I was trying to ensure that the commentary was focused more upon your experience than upon the other comments.

The appearance of the spirit would be connected to the death of your father ONLY if -as ladydarke suggested- it was a harbinger of profound events in your life and the sighting occurred *before* whatever events took your father. If its appearance seems to coincide with major events after they have occurred, you could be seeing a manifestation of a guardian spirit who is monitoring your wellbeing. There is always the possibility that the apparition is connected to your home, or your hometown, and you have been one of several residents to have witnessed his haunting. (This latter point should be easy to discount or to corroborate; are there local legends of a haunted site or of a spectral presence? If so, do they bear any resemblance to your description? If not, move on to another line of inquiry.)

Just a few ideas which occurred to me as I reread your narrative.
Best,
Biblio.

Hi Jones,

I noticed that in your story that you said the first time the man appeared 'we' saw him. Did that other person actually see the exact same thing you saw and, if so, was this person a relation? It's a shame your family wouldn't believe you even though you had another witness, but at least you knew you had the corrboration. Were you alone the second time?

My first impression on reading your story was the same as Rook's first post, that this feels like a harbinger. If so, I'd hazard that the unlit cigarette signifies an impending birth. Sounds like this detail really stood out to you, so it's probably the important part of this sighting. The cigarette pretty much resonates the same as a candle here to me, which symbolically signifies fate - candles lit as a life begins, burning during the lifetime, tall candles for a long life, stubby for a short one, extinguished on death: all that jazz. So an unlit wick/cigarette would reflect a life not yet begun. I'd imagine this would have to be really close to you, like in your immediate family or otherwise directly impacting your life. You wouldn't want to chalk it up to be any birth or baby announcement you may hear about in distant social circles just to draw a hit.

Regarding all the talk about toilets as portals: this sounds like a reference to oldern beliefs that 'unclean' places draw negative energies. TO be sure, it originates from the days of chamber pots and latrine holes, but how many stories are posted just on this site about haunted bathrooms? How many about dark unfinished basements and shadowy unused corners? What counts in the 21st century as an 'unclean place' where dark things might abide? Now I want to take a tour of a sewage treatment plant to see if I pick anything up, and survey sanitation workers about potential experiences.

Also, many people are willing to accept that mirrors serve as portals - but does water not conduct energy? Does it not traditionally mark the divide between the living and the dead? Think the River Styx, dream symbolism regarding shores, and such. Note that many if not most water-dwelling spirits in folklore tend to be, if not negative, at least carnivorous: Jenny Greenteeth, kappas, blue men, the bunyip, kelpies, grindylows, Lorelie, mermaids. Not that Peg Powler lives in your can nowadays, but it draws a correlation between water and a predatory nature such that one might posit *if* a spirit were to enter a space via a water channel or portal, it *might* tend to be more negative - not that there's any real way to test any paranormal theory or folkloric wisdom. Still, closing a toilet lid could well be viewed as a symbolic barrier sealing/protecting an 'unclean' room, in which the toilet would be the focal point or cause of the uncleaness, provided the intent were there that it create such a threshold.

Do not spirits knock on doors asking for access, and does not opening the door provide such symbolic access... Even though, as was stated, a spirit can walk through walls? What is a door if not a symbolic barrier? Why couldn't a toilet lid be treated as a similar barrier?

Conversely, and I think interestingly, *running* water is said to be a barrier for negative entities, as is nicely reflected in a story everyone knows: Sleepy Hollow. Folklore has it that vampires cannot cross running water, and running water is also considered to have purifying qualities. Feng shui teaches that running water purges the unnecessary and clears a space. Hoodoo tradition has it that washing down walls removes negative energy or even magic from an abode, as a bath does for the body, and that tossing the used water out the back door further takes such energies away. Crystals are traditionally cleansed and charged by running water over them. So maybe, if the intent were there, running (rather than plugging as was suggested) the faucets or even just flushing could also symbolically/energetically purify a room?

So not saying evil spirits will come through the toilet and 'get you in the end,' just y'know, think deeper. The toilet lid theory may not work, or maybe it helped some specific situation since IndigoK is only relating it on hearsay, but it's not automatically silly because it has a toilet in it.

Hi again Jones,

It can take years to figure this stuff out. Like I said all situations and ghosts are unique. If this were happening to me I'd take the similar location, you driving home, time of year, as sure signs of, at least, a meticulous manner from this ghost.

There is no reason to be scared of this figure cause he means you no harm. If he was evil he would have attacked you the second time you saw him cause all evil spirits attack when you are most vulnerable and or alone. And I do believe you should follow him cause its obvious he wants to show you something. That spirit is most likely a guardian spirit which is kind a guardian angel. I really hope this information helps you and I wish you the best of luck.

Once again thanks for all the advice and answers from everyone, they are all very much appreciated!

Biblio: thanks for the advice, both apparitions were in similar places, I live in a small town in England and the first was on the road we lived on at the time and the second was about 12 mile away while I was on my way home (don't know whether me going home has anything to do with it though as both times I was heading home)

I'm going to start a journal incase I ever see him again but it's hard to remember what date exactly I saw him the first time as it was 12 years ago.

Does anyone think it has anything to do with being near the date of my dad's passing? A few friends (the few I can confide these things in) have suggested this may be the case but they are about as clueless as me

Thanks again everyone
Jones

Hello, This is definitely interesting, I can understand the feeling of spirits approaching on purpose. Almost like they know you or something about you. While interesting it can be frustrating. As to whether you should follow him, I wouldn't suggest it simply because his intent is unclear. Though it seems that this topic has been thourhly covered with excellent answers. Thank you for sharing and I hope you can find clarity regarding this. 😊

Jones1992,

I wish to inform you that you should not follow this spirit. You really shouldn't interact with them anyways, but sometimes we cannot help it.

Try to avoid him as much as you can.

I wouldn't worry about this, but I also would not follow if you see him again. It is never a good idea to follow or interact with spirits.

Well, now days with Bluetooth and other hands-free phones, there's a heck of a lot of people looking like they're chatting away to themselves. So those of us who forget we're in public and talk with invisible friends have less worry. 😆

Hi Jones1992, thanks for sharing. Please don't follow the man even if he beckons you. As Rook said, try to maintain a journal and try to remember, the time-lag between your sighting this man and your dad's passing away. It might work this time too. It might not also. But, it is better to keep a track of events. It may be good or bad but if something happened either way, then it should prove that this sighting could be an harbinger. Keep us informed.

Regards and respects to you.

SDS

Jones:
Glad to read your account of your repeated haunt; my first reaction echos Tweed's question about the location of the road on which you experienced each 1920s apparition, over a decade apart. Was it the same road both times, the same general area, or was there nothing in common besides you and the phantom in each case? I'm pleased to see that some of the advice -especially Val's "trust your gut" advice- has helped to calm your anxiety. Surprise accounts for a lot of people's reactions to hauntings; sometimes the fight-or-flight response goes into overdrive and creates a scary situation out of an unusual event. I'm reminded of the Ghost in Hamlet "'...This is wondrous strange.' 'And therefore as a stranger, give it welcome!...'"

Rook:
I was not expecting Beetlejuice! I snorted with laughter and nearly choked on my tea! Thanks; I needed that.

Indigo:
"seems so crazy I am aware of it." You are not alone in that, I assure you.
"I often find myself forgetting I'm in public and chatting away as if we [were] alone - so not a good look for anyone." I think you may find that this "talking to oneself in public" phenomenon is analogous to various other communication-oriented pursuits.
I'm not going to ponder the reactions of the moderators if I comment on your advice to "Close toilet lids..." I'll merely suggest that keeping a lid on it is -by far- the more salubrious option. It is of great concern to me that whoever gave you this nugget of advice may have been speaking at crossed-purposes and mixed up 'entity' with 'rat.'

G'night all,
Biblio.

Thanks for commenting everyone, I've been having a long think about the whole experience and havnt really come to many conclusions yet except that I do feel he is good as after valirkcry asked what my gut feeling once I think I realised that I actually felt very safe, whether that was because I was safe in my car or not I'm not sure. Thanks for the comment tweed you've really helped me come to terms with some of the stuff that happens to me!
Thanks again everyone
A much calmer, happier Jones

Jones,
Rook gives you some pretty solid advice in his first comment.
I would add this though; you ask if you should be scared - what is your 'gut' feeling? Deep down, what is your initial feeling beyond the initial shock of seeing them? That 'sensing' of good or bad, is a fairly good indicator for if you should be wary or not.

Lady-Glow, come on now! Diapers are not required!
What you need is "Demon-Clean"! That's right! Just one quick application around the bowl and all your entity problems are gone! No mess, no fuss! "Demon-Clean" removes 99.9% of all harmful spiritual residues!

Would this mean that every time a person seats on the loo is vulnerable to possession via their...err...behind? 😕

Gosh, I'll consider to start wearing diapers! 😆 😆

Rook
I have cess pools so if a lower spirit is waiting to get into my house via taps or toilets that would be a real crappy job 😆.
Regards
Red

Well Rook, I imagine the Dark Lord was rubbing his hands with glee with advent of modern plumbing!
"The fools! Our time has come at last! Bwahahaha!"
Mack

Lady and Mack...

Port O Psychic?

Sorry couldn't resist.

Respectfully,

Rook

Wow...name chanting 3 times really works? Lets try it...

Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice.

AND...WAIT FOR IT...

Yeah, no... Nothing happened.

Oh...one more thing... Just because Michael wears a Long White Nightshirt does not make him female...that's like saying all Scotsman who wear Kilts are women in short skirts... Thats just NOT RIGHT.

Respectfully,

Rook

IndigoK: are you a cyber-psychic or how did you do the 'reading' of the spirit in this particular story?

If spirits are able to walk through solid walls, I can't understand how the lid of a toilet could contain them... 😕

Hi IndigoK - Toilets: portals for low energy spirits? Really? How does that work? And how would putting the lid down stop them?
Isn't there a gap between the seat and the lid?
Regards
Mack

Hi Jones,

I'm like Mack in that I think of ghosts as individuals without physical bodies, same with other entities. I'd be inclined to go with a spooking intention for this individual if it weren't for my own experiences with a ghost (a 1900's man) who for years scared the crap out of me. I now trust this individual and urge you to consider the possibility that looks can deceive.

Now, I'm not saying I *think* your ghost is a 'good guy', rather suggesting to keep this option open for the time being.

Am I right in thinking the first time you saw him you were driving? If so, it's interesting both times have been whilst driving. Was the location anywhere near the first location?
Is there any significance to the direction he walked in before he vanished?
Try to think of any similarities to both times, what you were feeling, thinking etc. There's probably a clue to his motives here.
For example my old fashioned guy appeared in the back seat of my car during my 'nihilist' phase in my early 20's. I tried to block out all paranormal awareness/knowledge and be 'normal' for a few months. It didn't work. Him appearing in the back of my car that night, wearing a heck of a grimace, spoke absolute volumes. His intention was obvious; Stop pretending to be a non-believer, Tweed.
Well, that worked.

The thing about this ghost and you, is that he keeps his distance. I get the feeling there's a politeness in that. Don't worry about him showing up in the back of your car. All situations are different as are all individuals.
Beckoning you over seems like someone trying to show you something. Also this suggests he knew you saw him the first time. Seems like he expects you to 'get it', if not now, then eventually. It may not be about following him physically, rather intellectually.

Like Rook says, don't physically follow him, too much uncertainty there.

Hope you figure it out, this is a very intriguing story. Thanks for sharing.😊

(I think this is, could be wrong, but pretty sure this is the 1000th POST! Is it?...Don't know, let's find out)
(!)

Thanks for the feedback!
Rook I'll do some research into harbingers as I've never heard of them before I just hope it's not anything to do with death!
Thanks mack I'm Completely new to all this as I haven't really thought much into my experiences until this happened and so yes I was very freaked out!
Thanks again
Jones1992

Thanks for sharing your experience. I always look at spirits as mere people, just like you and I but without physical bodies.

So if I was this guy, and I decided to reveal myself to you on two occasions, and on the second occasion decided to beckon you with my finger, then disappear, clearly the only effect that would have would be to seriously freak you out right?

So he's mischievous and insensitive to your feelings. So yes, you should be (and were) scared, therefore I would say "mission accomplished" by this particular "gentleman" who should know better.

Cheers Mack

Sounds as if you MAY be able to see your Families Harbinger...

(Harbinger: noun - anything that foreshadows a future event; omen; sign...)

The Irish BANSHEE is a notable Harbinger that most individuals have heard of.

NOT ALL HARBINGRS FORTELL 'DEATH'...they can foretell GOOD events as well as 'BAD' events.

Cue the spooky music...

If you remember the exact amount of time between seeing this man and your fathers passing look for something to happen in the same time frame. Keep a Journal and see what, if any, events lead up to something happening at the same amount of time after seeing this man and please keep us posted.

Do not follow him... Not recommended.

Respectfully,

Rook