Comments for Tour Of Jerusalem And Bethlehem: Page 4

dogboy: Who do you pray to?...And when you pray, do you not ask for the presence of Jesus or the Holy Ghost to enter, therefore creating the opportunity for anyone/thing to do so?...Do you think that's not opening yourself up for possession?...

I personally don't know of ANY Wiccan who asks their God/Goddess to enter them... And they certainly don't worship Satan...

dogboy,

That is all well and good... But what does that have to do with Wiccan's Worshiping Satan? I never 'opened' myself to possesion nor was it a common part of my beliefs at the time I practiced so I fail to see where what you are saying has to do with being a Practicing Wiccan.

Respectfully,

Rook

Because in my OPINION (there, happy I said it?), anything that people do to allow themselves to be possessed is opening themselves to Satan himself, and opening yourself to do Satan's will on purpose is in my OPINION (said it again!) the worship of Satan... When I said worship I did not mean bowing down to Satan, but if you pray to Satan or ask him to help you, than you are asking him to come into your life to do as he wants and to rule your life... BUT if you ask God/Jesus to save you from your sins and ask him to come into your heart and that you accept His death on the cross for your sins than you belong to Him.

dogboy,

Yes that is the comment I am refering to. Could you please share why you would make such a general statment?

Respectfully,

Rook

Are you talking about the thing where I said that Wiccans worship Satan?

dogboy,

If you followed the link. Welcome to one of my experiences. I would like to know just where you are getting your information from as I at one time was a Wiccan BUT now attend Chruch on a regular basis but I never saw the distinction you seem to be drawing. So please share with me (us) where you get this opinion of yours from.

Respectfully,

Rook

I'm having problems with my computer slowing down again, it might be xmas traffic.

In case I disappear, I would like to wish you and your family a very Merry Xmas, may you always be surrounded by those you love. Thank you for everything.

To all members, Health, Happiness and Luck for the New Year.

Rook,

I bet they have and good luck with it if it's what I think it is.

Don't worry, I've waited nigh on 50 years for somebody to solve the mystery for me, I can wait a bit longer. I'm anxious though to see if you can solve the mystery of the "gift". After hearing the landlady talk of The God Poseidon, I must admit that for at least a little while I wished I had accepted it myself. Still, I can't help thinking it was not a "good" gift.

Vanessanda,

Well met and I am so glad that I have been able to help you. I have not forgotten and I am still 'working' on the rest of that which you asked about... Things here have been a bit...Hectic...to say the least.

Spelling is easy to forgive if people take the time to look at the country of orign of many of the O/P's and take a moment to realize someone many be using a second or perhaps even a thrid language.

Respectfully,

Rook

Rook,

Hi, I thought this page might be the best place to check in with you.

Firstly, I would like you to know that the negative energy levels continue to be low since your shield went up a few days ago and I thank you very much for that. I actually did feel the need, a few minutes ago, to use the sage soap which you advised some time ago, so I'm just out of the shower freshly "saged". 😁

I would also like, if you don't mind, to pass on some experience that I have, for those who are interested. As you know, I meet hundreds of people in the course of my work who are learners of the English language. I find that their biggest fear is to speak or write the English language because they are afraid of ridicule if they make a mistake. It's a hurdle they find extremely difficult to overcome.

Taking into consideration this problem that Learners of English have, I believe that visitors from non-English speaking backgrounds may be deterred from particular sites if they see negative comments about spelling or the use of the English language generally. Since I feel a connection with them, I'm grateful and pleased that these visitors are treated with the utmost respect here.

I'm sure everybody would agree that spelling errors are no big deal. In any case, don't we all make spelling errors from time to time? Don't we all understand each other with or without the spelling errors?

I hope you don't mind me expressing these thoughts here. Thanks for reading.

Omega-Star,

From your opening statment I am going to guess that you are a long time lurker, recent contributer.

But that is not what you wished to me to address is it... You stated (just for you I'll quote it
😉)

"You are not wrong in what you say. Though I might add that you confront people that are obviously in the know in a way that cuts all of their defences off and leaves them feeling wrong done by."

I may come across as 'harsh' at times but as 'exposed' as you seem to think I leave those that 'thump' I am mearly trying to 'deflect' the harshness of the words they have used in an attempt to 'convert' individuals that are usually in their teens and due to 'events' in their life are very Impressionable.

I do not try and pick fights and I have always 'couched' my advice so as to not come off as a Preachy Individual who's only suggestion at possible resolution is a 'fear converson'.

I've seen to much in my 44 years. What I know and how I got to this point is a pretty amazing tale and this is not the place to tell it. I do believe in Heavenly Father, His Son and the Holy Spirit... To the point I realize there are as many paths to Them as there are people in the world... So I offer advice and aid in simple terms and with Methods that are not shrouded in the mystery of any given Church... Just plain simple advice... No yelling, bashing or 'THUMPING'.

You have asked this of me...

"I plead forr you to not use this method when dealing with this type of human, for the mental repercutions can effect some people worse than others."

I counter with your own advice to me... They should not use the methods they are for you are absolutly correct the repercutions can effect some people worse than others. My adivce at least suggests that they think for themselves and not follow the crowd blindly.

Not every bump in the night is a Demon out to eat your brain and take over your body it may be your Guide or maybe the Holy Ghost trying to show you the way.😲

Respectfully,

Rook

Hello rookie

First off, dmcal, if your ganna tangle with rook you had better have your facts set and ready for debate, or you better be quick with words. He's quite,...delicate to communicate with.

Rookie

You are not wrong in what you say. Though I might add that you confront people that are obviously in the know in a way that cuts all of their defences off and leaves them feeling wrong done by. It's not good for you or the victim. I plead forr you to not use this method when dealing with this type of human, for the mental repercutions can effect some people worse than others.

You can quote me if you like.

dmcal,

First let me thank you if you have followed the link. Second... Well I'll just jump right in as I have a few questions about some of the points you have made.

You have stated, "...demonic beings are those fallen angels that rebelled with Lucifer (now Satan) prior to mankind and they are powerful beings and are not detoured by such traditions."

This is something I do agree with TRUE DEMONS are those that sided with Lucifer and were 'cast out' with him.

I do not agree with your point that "Every since I have been on this site I have seen this recipe for getting rid of these entities by opening curtains, letting light in, smudging and the like. Let me assure, these things have no effect whatsoever."

Things such as smudging, cold iron and even my method of cleansing are all methods of focusing positive thoughts/protection (shields) and energy, for me this energy/protection comes from Heavenly Father, but not everyone believes in Him... So just apply simple laws of attraction... Like attracts like... If there is darkness/negativity then more will 'build' in a given environment. If however someone opens a curtain and let's in the light or opens a window and let's fresh air into a room its whole atmosphere changes. This does not take a belief in a Higher Power (which we both seem to have).

You also contend that all paranormal activity is demonic in nature based on this fact...

"His word makes if very clear that when a person in Christ dies their souls go to be in his presence. On the other hand, when a person who has rejected Christ dies, they go to Hades, which is in the heart of the earth and where the lost dead go."

If this is so why will 'all souls' be called forth at the Final Judgment if they have already attained their Final Place either with Heavenly Father or with Lucifer?

What about 1 Corinthians 15:40-41 40: There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41: There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

You know what...I'm going to stop myself and ask you a couple of questions instead of going on and on addressing all your points...

Question 1: Do you believe in recent reports of the Manifestation of Christ and/or the Virgin Mary that have been reported around the world?

Question 2: Do you believe in Praying to the Saints for intercession and/or protection?

If your answer is yes to either of these then you have lost your own argument...

"...deceased human spirits are never the cause of any type of paranormal activity."

I will await your answers. Thanks in Advance.

Respectfully,

Rook

aya22,
Don't give up on the work you have been doing to get past or make peace with whatever the experience was. I am speaking from my own experience in this matter. It took me almost 40 years, but I finally put it up a week or two ago. It was worth it. Believe me. Don't ever give that up over these squabbles you find here. You know they have always been part of the landscape, and as long as we are all free thinkers, they always will be.

Jav

aya22,
The problem is the bashing, not religion. And some of us feel that the cause of the bashing is the plethora of stories being posted on this site that, by all rights, should have been re directed to the site that was created especially for them. You haven't been around in a while so you are apparently unaware of the growing problem.
If you would like me to explain my comment more, I will. But suffice it to say that I was focussing on the meaning of the word religion, that's all. It is constantly thought to mean something it does not.

Jav

First, I apologize for my long absence and realize that this really should NOT be the first thing I poke my nose into!

*trying to still hold back*

But I've returned to this site recently and now am questioning whether or not to finish what I left abandoned (an experience which has taken me YEARS to open up about), because I write from a certain taboo perspective.

As someone who hasn't been involved on this site in a while, can I still interject one thing? Javelina, as much respect that I have for you (so I mean this with the best intentions), you're off about one thing. Ghosts/spritis are an invitation to the subject of religion, however unintentional this is. Ghosties are connected with the afterlife for many and since people of all various demographics and beliefs come on here, it will be an ever-present discussion (as long as people allow it to be) since people have such different views on what the afterlife is or is not. People write their stories from their perspective, so the topic of religion is bound to come up one way or another.

And honestly, isn't there a pattern here? Many posters have used their religious beliefs/rituals to help them with ghostie situations, not all of them being Christian. Yet people who write from Christian perspectives get bashed all the time. But it seems people ignore other stories/comments written from the perspectives of Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Wicca, etc. I understand how posts are questionable when their purpose is obviously for convincing/converting others. Those are the posters to focus on and cast out so to speak. Other than that, can't we all just get along? LOL

If I'm ignorant of anything, anyone please correct me. Yet I have no desire to argue or bash this out with anyone. Besides, it looks like everyone is exhausted from this.

*should've held back*

I'm seriously regretting this, but anyway... Hello again! 😊 😕

***

Oh, and to the troll who started this whole mess: I bet you're just laughing in your seat. Honestly, an anthiest who believes in ghosts? I'm obviously ignorant, because I didn't know there was such a thing.

[at] zzgranny,
You are absolutely, positively, 100%, on the money!
Things have spun out of control most often over just that. And eliminating those "morality lesson" themed experiences from these pages would go far in helping to keep the flamewars from igniting.
Others may argue that the subject of ghosts/spirits is, in itself, an invitation to the subject of religion. Which couldn't be further from the truth. Spirituality, yes. Religion, no. That is where the lines can become blurred, but only by forcing the issue does that occur. Bashing one another over what should be a personal matter is just a cheap shot, a troll tactic, and puts the site, as a whole, into a bad light.
But, to go back to what I was saying at the beginning of this discussion, it makes it doubly difficult to maintain decorum when these experiences are allowed past editing. There is just no way anybody could convince me that putting them up here is helping anyone. Because, beyond any argument, it is still against the stated rules and guidelines we all agreed to when we became members of this site.
Thank you Rook, for providing the space for this forum to take place.

Jav

There are two sister sites:

Http://www.psychic-experiences.com
And
Http://www.spiritual-experiences.com

I could be wrong, but I believe these sites were created to maintain the integrity of this site, which is about Ghost Experiences... Please visit the other sites, and you'll understand why some of the stories in question would be better suited to their format...I'm not saying they all don't belong here or don't fall into the category of "ghost experience", but the feedback would be much friendlier 😊 in a format suited to their particular experience and beliefs...

Also, the links are found at the top of the page as: "Psychics and Mediums" and "Sprituality" 😊...I feel that if others were made aware of these sites there would be far fewer religious discussions and downright arguments... Religion is the #1 reason for discussions that get out of control on this site... Nearly every other subject or topic that is disputed by one or more posters ends quickly with the "agree to disagree", but the topic of religion is an on-going thorn in the side of this site, and with such a diverse readership, there are bound to be discussions...

The age thing, yeah, could be a deterent, but I believe it's the nasty downright dirty childish squabbling that has turned MOST off and away to other venues and sites... ❤

Moongrim

Yes, there are Christians who are hypocrites. But you seem to be an intelligent person, you don't seriously want me to believe that you are putting ALL Christians in the same barrel, do you?

I don't understand what lie you are talking about and who is dressing it up? Do you mean the fake stories? Most of us can pick them out and some of us like to have fun with them but we dont' do it in a way that insults other members be they christian or atheist.

Who exactly is insisting that they and they alone are going to heaven? I certainly didn't say that and don't know of anybody who has.

As for fighting fire with fire. I don't believe I said anything insulting to you but if I did please tell me what it was and I will apologise.

I agree with Jav about the age thing btw. I was shocked to find my title included "middle aged". Age is in the mind anyhow. I would suggest teen, young adult and adult is enough.

I would also suggest a forum on this site for the arguments/discussions. Arguments can be a healthy thing if done in a civilised manner. Most of us enjoy a civilised debate or even a heated discussion, don't we?. This site is where the discussion/argument began and this site is where the forum should be. We should be able to get together and "have it out". Nobody would bother to move to a sister site and the discussion would be lost. I think they will just stay where they are and nothing will be gained.

The regulars here have become something of a family in the way one defends the other when one comes under attack. If a regular can lose control and be forgiven, then a visitor or a new member should have the same opportunity. To throw people out altogether for stating their mind or disagreeing with the mainstream could be considered undemocratic. If they get nasty or rude, they could be redirected to the forum and all those who want to have a say can join in. I say let's have a forum on this site where we can get together and discuss and people could get things off their chest and hopefully cool down a bit. Let's try and convince them that we are not a closed shop and are not "out to get them". We just want the same respect from them in return. They might also end up becoming valuable and respected members.

Since Rook has always been kind enough to redirect these discussions to his page, how about he help organise and moderate it?

Zzsgranny

I for one have a very interesting pic that I seriously considered posting on this site when Rook started passing on messages from my mum, out of the blue. However, I only considered it for a few seconds and then decided against it, because of one particular poster. I didn't want the photo to be discredited or ridiculed by them. It's far too precious to me.

There's good and bad in all makes and models, races and religions and atheists etc. Who is the judge who has added up the numbers and concluded that Christians are the worst of the bunch? I would like to see statistics.

[at] zzgranny,
I don't want to always be the main complainer of the the bunch here, but I know if I don't say it, no one will...
The age profiling has driven folks away from reading the experiences put up by anyone with the designation of "teenager" in the title area of the page.
People in their forties are very unhappy being tagged as middle aged adults.
And I simply find that age profiling is a huge deterrent to seeing things with an open mind. We would all like to believe that we couldn't be swayed either way, but we are.

Jav

Rook: I saw that you attempted to redirect a certain discussion here yesterday, and I thank you for that, (hence my comment on the other thread 😊)...But, we all know you won't receive an answer 😆...

I agree with Jave, some stories should be directed to the sister sites...I've noticed a dramatic decline recently in the readership/comments of some of the regular posters... I don't know what to attribute that to, but for myself, it seems the site has taken on the personality of the "psycho site", if y'all know what I mean... 😢

Rook,
I do understand and agree with what you are saying. But remember this, there is a sister site that was created for just that purpose. A place to take your personal experiences and share them with others. People who are there for just that type of story. A place that welcomes these type of experiences. I am baffled as to why these are not redirected there. It cannot be helpful to the O/P to have what occurred here, when their experience could have been redirected to a more accepting venue. Even if they don't mind the criticism, it is still a matter of the rules and guidelines set forth by this site being tossed out the window by those in the position of protecting them.

Jav

Jav,

The experience is what it is... It got through and many people at least thought along the same lines as what some people have posted... On the other hand some of the posters went too far the other direction with their comments.

Most of us are pretty good at policeing ourselves when it comes to 'calling out' stories whether we think they are 'preachy' or 'fictions' and most of us do it without Rancor or, in some cases, obvious attempts at being obnixious. There are some however that 'hold no punches' and seem to do it in a deliberate attempt to get people riled up which seems to be the case here.

I agree, we all can, and do make mistakes...I've made a few myself. On the other hand there are some things that one just has to take a stand on.

So here it is... A place to make 'our stand' a place that doesn't detract from the O/P's comments thread. Let's see if our combined comments are enough to 'kill' this conversation or if they have 'fed the fires' of discussion. I brought popcorn hoping for the latter. 😉

Respectfully,

Rook

[at] Rook,
Nice place you've got here. Who's your decorator?

I am really having a hard time holding this back because there are many times I agree with Moongrim about the amount of experiences that make it onto these pages with an over emphasis on a "message". It does make people uncomfortable. It is against the stated guidelines of the site, and I was raised to believe it was a private matter. My mother was very strident in her tone about it "Two things you don't bring up in public, politics and religion".
By rejecting experiences just because someone mentions their faith in a higher power helped them through some very scary moments is not the answer. However, there are some that get through with such obvious "messages" that it really does make you wonder why the rules and guidelines are not being adhered to by those in the position to enforce them. Why are they ignored by some editors and not by others? I'm not pointing fingers here, especially not at zzgranny, but it does seem as if those same rules do not apply to everyone equally.
So when these debates spin out of control, as this one has, think about how it could have been avoided had someone with the power to reject or accept that submission had stayed within the stated guidelines.
Some consistency in the editing process, as it pertains to the rules and guidelines we all have agreed to adhere by would be nice.

Jav

~I'll admit when I screw up, and I did just that earlier with my last post to Moongrim. But I can't say it won't happen again. And we all know I'd be lying if I did~

I'll bring this here as the O/P of the thread it broke out on deserves better than to have their comments section turned into a Battle Ground...

(Climbs onto Soapbox... Clears throat...)

Sheltered from Criticism? REALLY? Just which Church/Religion do you refer to when you say...

"The problem with religion, because it's been sheltered from criticism, is that it allows people to believe en mass what only idiots or lunatics could believe in isolation."

Going back as far as one can religion has had it's critics. Think about it... If no one THOUGHT differently then there wouldn't be so many different Churches... Most which differ only in small ways from one another... The Christians believed in the teachings and Divinity of Christ and so 'split' from the Jewish Religion because they criticized those who did not believe in the 'NEW TEACHINGS'. This has lead to many different religions... Roman Catholic...Protestant...Episcopalian...The Church of England... Good Ol King Henry the VIII wanted to do something the Church wouldn't let him so what did he do by way of Criticism... He Founded his own Church, and with Him as it's Leader he did just what he wanted to do. Or what about Martin Luther... He Criticized the Roman Church for Selling Indulgences (letting people buy forgiveness)...What did he do? Translated the Bible into German and started the Protestant Reformation.

Let us not forget a more Modern reference... I refer to the Church I joined because of how close it's teachings were to my own personal beliefs at the time I was introduced to it.

The Mormons... Criticized and Hated... Driven out of the Eastern United States by other 'God Fearing' people... The Founder shot dead by a Mob... Because he criticized other Organized Religions and established his own.

I could go on and on... But to say... Religion has been Sheltered from Criticism is just plain asinine.

The problem with Organized Religions isn't that they in themselves teach that 'mine is better than yours'...That is not it at all... The problem stems from ourselves and to sum it up in one word it's PRIDE...It's Pride that makes people say 'Our Church is right, yours is wrong!' We as individuals do not like to be 'wrong' but tolerance and forgiveness are two of the biggest teachings in any organized RELIGION/CHURCH but we as individuals let things like PRIDE get in the way... This leads to 'heated glares' at the least and to full blown WARS at the fullest extreme.

Even in my Church we have those who do not 'get it'...they allow PRIDE to cloud their thinking and they say things like... We have the 'ONLY TRUTH'... Totally forgetting TWO of the 13 Articles of Faith that are taught to all Church Members, be they born into the Church or Converts. Those Article's of Faith are...

Number 11) We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

AND

Number 13) We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul - We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

If everyone would apply number 13... Be they Atheist or Christian... Buddhist or Hindu... The world would be a better place...

Just Saying... (climbs off soap box)

Respectfully,

Rook

Moongrim,

So now, according to you I am a...how did you say it? Oh yes... (Quoted) "As opposed to the New Agey charlatans"... A New Agey Charlatan? Great use of the english language, but that aside I'll wear that title proudly if it means I can continue to help people either with my Experiences and Advice or by useing the 'Gifts' given to me by Heavenly Father.

Help such as this...

http://www.yourghoststories.com/real-ghost-story.php?story=10984 (in which I used certian 'Gifts' I have to help with a situation... The O/P lives in Nevada and I'm down south in Texas)

Then there are those who have asked for help and chose to use the technique of Sheilding and Cleansing I use for myself and suggest to others...

Http://www.yourghoststories.com/real-ghost-story.php?story=13085 (in which suggestions of mine and another memeber (now former member) were able to help a family in South Africa)

Last but not least there is this Experience in which my 'receipe' was used by the O/P who lives in Greece. (the results can be read if one reads the comments...)

Http://www.yourghoststories.com/real-ghost-story.php?story=12889

If results like these make me a Charaltan, then maybe I actually deserve that 'title'. 😉

I'm sure there are others on site who have used the technique I suggest... Well heres a chance to have your say... Did it work? Did it not work? No results at all? Please share with us here inquireing minds want to know.

Respectfully,

Rook

TIGERKING,

The oringnal Topic of this experience of mine, nor the laundry list of Religious 'tangent' comments that have been 'directed' here so that other members Experiences can remain drama free is why I asked you to post here.

So pick any of my Experiences, which one doesn't matter, the invitations I extend are to allow the comments section of others Experiences to remain 'on topic'. This can be because people have started to wax very Religious or driffted well off topic and, at times, 'personal attacks' are being carried out and individuals do not need that on their Experience.

Again I'm glad you joined the site, some of your comments have caused me to think, but remember there are many different points of view out there and people didn't share their Experience to suffer sarcastic comments and ridicule, rather they wished to share to 'get it off their chest' or they are seeking HELP with a situation they do not understand.

And for the record it's Rook... Rook Dygin if you wish to be more formal. Not Rookie... Not by any means...

Respectfully,

Rook

Tigerking, philophasise? Stupider? Not words! Now I know why you don't want to get into an intellectual debate with Rook. No worries, you just confirmed your intellectual status to the rest of us!

😆 😆 😆

ok.

I see why you wanted me to "chat" with you on this page. Initially I just read your story and skipped the comments. Just now I have read, quite a few comments until I'd seen enough to tell that your going off on a tangent. There's no way I would involve myself into a intellectual debate with you under the guise of a spiritual conversation, in order to proove who is right or wrong/smarter or stupider. That's b/s.

I'm the same as you for the reasoning of joining this site. It was to share my experience's and maybe chat to some people who had been through the same sort of thing. But after being here on this site for so long, I now see that, like it is with all human interaction, covered in complications created by peoples ignorance and concietedness. I have no need to validate myself, my knowlege, nor my beliefs.

Don't you think the more simpler things are the more they make sense?
when your covering everything with such a fine tooth comb and picking things apart like a csi programme it's becoming more of a joke, don't you think?

What I mean is,. I have no intension of prooving myself. I have no need to. 😆

But if you want to philophasise and discuss experiences then I'm all for it. 😐

i just wrote a whole lot of stuff explaining to you my point of view and it was, randomly deleted. So as I understand it, I wasn't supposed to tell you all that stuff. Any way I'm not ganna re-write it. I do apologise for the blunt way I speak, but hey, I'm only human.

rookie

Thanks for the welcome. My seatbelt is fastened my mind is...ready. And I'm willing to discuss anything. But if people are talking rubbish I won't humor them.

TIGERKING,

You have said (and I quote)...

"I agree that research is a necessity. Though I have my resources. I just don't want to mix in all these different things, it's not healthy. At the end of the day I only need to know about what effects me."

If that is all you want to learn about, then your mind is already closed to many things and any comments you make here will sound 'uneducated' and be treated as such.

As I stated, WELCOME TO THE SITE, many different experiences are discussed here and there are many people with a vast amount of experience that offer advice and Aid as needed. Sit back, Strap in and Hang on, it can be a Wild Ride at times but please keep your mind open.

Respectfully,

Rook

Vanessanda,

I have never thought of that... This bears looking into. Thank you for your refreshing Point of View.

Respectfully,

Rook

Rook, you know I'm no expert but Patricia could come from the greek "Patrikos", the female version would be "Patrikia" (not sure). Anyway, "Patrikos" means "father's" (heavenly Father's?). And wasn't Ruth the cousin who conceived at the same time as Christ's mother?

Forgive my ignorance,
V

generalchaos,

Feel free to 'pick'. My e-mail is on my profile.

That scripture doesn't have to be limited by our 'earth' standards... Nothing in it suggests that it is...

There are so many stories of spirits, demons and such in the Bible we shouldn't have a problem staying 'ON Topic'... 😁

Respectfully,

Rook

oops! Sorry about that...

Yeah... Interesting quote... I've heard it said that quote referred to First Nations people or native people of places that hadn't had contact with the Middle East at that time... Australia, South America, etc.
I haven't heard it in reference to aliens.

I agree - we're on this one little planet, and there are so many more out there, etc etc etc...

Ok, I'll stop. I'm interested in picking your brain some more at some other time, though.

generalchaos,

Actually I do... To much 'space' out there for me to think our 'earth' is a singularity...

I can back that up with scripture as well...

John 10:16 16) And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

So if we believe scripture, just who is he talking about?

We are not quite in keeping with Ghosts... And while I do not mind bringing religion into the disscussion I think that we should at least stay with-in the bounds of the Sites Topic...Ghosts/Spirits/ Paranormal stuff... 😉 E-mail me if you want to continue conversing about 'off site' topics.

Respectfully,

Rook

Hi Rook -
Yeah - Space ships! Alien life forms! E.T.! What do you think --is there intelligent life out there?

Yeah, I've seen stuff I couldn't identify that was also flying, but I'm reasonably sure someone else could figure out what it was. (If I had a telescope, or binoculars...)

LOL - I wasn't taught that ghosts don't exist based on anything in the Bible. My parents would tell me that so I'd shut up, just like there were no monsters under the bed, nothing scary in my closet, etc.

generalchaos,

Literal Definition or Space Ships?

I ask because I've seen a UFO in the Literal Sense... It was something I couldn't Identify... It was Flying... It was an Object...

But that topic is best suited to another site.

For myself because I can not read Hebrew or Greek, or Latin for that matter. I prefer the King James Version because it's the 'first' English Translation... From the Latin... And I believe the Latin was transated from Greek... And the Greek was translated from the Hebrew, or was the Oringnal language of some of the books...

"By approximately 500 BC, the 39 Books that make up the Old Testament were completed, and continued to be preserved in Hebrew on scrolls. As we approach the last few centuries before Christ, the Jewish historical books known as the "Apocrypha" were completed, yet they were recorded in Greek rather than Hebrew. By the end of the First Century AD, the New Testament had been completed. It was preserved in Greek on Papyrus, a thin paper-like material made from crushed and flattened stalks of a reed-like plant. The word "Bible" comes from the same Greek root word as "papyrus". The papyrus sheets were bound, or tied together in a configuration much more similar to modern books than to an elongated scroll."

Http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/pre-reformation.html

Your are correct Ghosts (Spirits) are mentioned in the Bible... And they are not all refered to as Demons... Fallen Angels... Or being 'Evil'.

I'm not sure where people 'support' that concept using Biblical Quotes.

Respectfully,

Rook

[at] Rook - I would guess that "gods" is a poor translation - seems like with all the languages that book has been translated back and forth through, it's like a game of telephone!

I just find it fascinating how I was taught "There's no such thing as ghosts" - only to find that, well, they are even referenced in the Bible.

How about UFOs?

generalchaos,

Saul was not getting any answers from his normal means... Fear drove him to seek out a medium... This medium... A woman from Endor was able to make contact with Samuel's Spirit... Who was not happy about being contacted... He was blunt and told Saul just why Heavenly Father had turned his back on him...

Pretty stright forward story... Man seeks medium which he had banned... Man is brought to medium who summons Spirit requested... Man learns that he is about to die because he didn't 'Listen' or 'do his part' in the grand scheme of things...

I find it very intresting that depending on the version of the Bible one reads... How Greatly part of the transation varies...

King James Version 1 Samuel 28 verses 13-14: 13) And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth. 14) And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.

New International Version: 13) The king said to her, "Don't be afraid. What do you see?" The woman said, "I see a spirit coming up out of the ground."

14) "What does he look like?" he asked. "An old man wearing a robe is coming up," she said. Then Saul knew it was Samuel, and he bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground.

New Living Translation: 13) "Don't be afraid!" the king told her. "What do you see?" "I see a god coming up out of the earth," she said.

14) "What does he look like?" Saul asked. "He is an old man wrapped in a robe," she replied. Saul realized it was Samuel, and he fell to the ground before him.

The change I refer to is the word 'gods'...

I use the King James Version... I have always wondered just what was meant by that reference... No one have ever been able to give me a 'satisfiying' answer.

Respectfully,

Rook

[at] Rook - yes, I'm familiar with the parts you mentioned. Going off on a bit of a tangent, I've even heard there have been theories that Elijah was taken up by a UFO - hence the whole "chariot" thing...

How about other non-Biblical but also spiritual persons appearing to people well after a documented death?

While we're on the subject, what's your take on the witch of Endor raising the spirit of Samuel?

Thanks for the discussion:)

generalchaos,

I'll start by quoting from the Church's Articles of Faith.

Article of Faith 7) We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.

I believe Revelation and Visions apply to your question.

Having said that you asked if I thought they may be a 'Ghost' and I would have to say YES.

Let me explain...

Very few People in Scripture have been 'taken' Directly to Heaven...

Christ is ONE (of course).

Enoch and Elijah are two others. "Enoch walked with God and he was not, for God took him" (Genesis). As Hebrews says, he had pleased God and his reward was "not to see death". Regarding Elijah, he was walking with his son when a chariot appeared separating them; Elijah was taken up by a whirlwind "into heaven" and was seen no more.

This means they were able to rejoin Heavenly Father in Heaven before the Resurrection. There bodies and Spirits were found 'ready' to pass on and be with Heavenly Father. Christ returned as a 'physical being' and spoke with the Disciples and reassured them he was not a 'Ghost'. Which he was not... He appeared to them in his Perfected Body the one we shall receive at the time of the Resurrection.

The Spirits of other Biblical Persona's may very well return and teach lessons to those in need. When they do this they are in 'Spirit' form and therefor a GHOST.

I hope that makes sense and isn't 'to religious'. Thanks for asking. Please ask any other questions you may have.

Respectfully,

Rook

*grin* Oh Rook, just kidding you;)

No - I didn't mean at all the images burnt into toast or anything like that.
I meant, for instance, those kids in Medjugorje, or people like that, who "see" someone holy (and I'll use that term loosely here, to include various visions and religions- but leave visions of angels right out for the moment), and sure- get a fine, wonderful message (new prayer, a design for a church, whatever)

Are those considered "ghosts"?

It's something I've been kicking around fairly recently. I was told when I was growing up that there's no such thing as ghosts. After I had a few weird experiences, I decided that was simply not true... And the more I think about it, the more I wonder (out loud sometimes) "Hey, what about all those visions of Mary, Jesus, and saints (Joan of Arc was said to have seen Mary, St. Therese was said to have seen Jesus, if I recall)... Aren't these people essentially seeing GHOSTS? Their physical bodies aren't there, they died a while ago - seem to be ghosts to me.

*and I'll use the term "ghost" here pretty loosely too. I realize there are various types of ghosts, various sightings, all that stuff.

What does your church teach about events like that?

For the record the 'underwear' is not magic... Just something the Church developed to help members keep in mind our 'vows' to Heavenly Father and His Promise's to us if we keep them...😉

Respectfully,

Rook

generalchaos,

Well seeing as 'we' believe in a Modern Day Prophet and things of that nature. (Articles of Faith 6 and 7: 6) We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth. 7) We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.)

I don't 'see' why it can't happen. If an individual needs that type of 'vision' or interaction in their life I believe it's possible.

What needs to be asked however is this... Are all the reported incidences actually a visit by Mary, Jesus, or various saints? The message is just as important, if not more so than the messenger in some cases.

Christ is not going to appear on a Grilled Cheese Sandwich so he can be auctioned on E-Bay...

Respectfully,

Rook

Hey Rook (not Jit) - so you're a Mormon, huh? LDS?

(resists temptation to ask about magic underwear... 😊

So, what's *your* take on incidents in which someone of modern times has some kind of interaction with (for instance) Mary, Jesus, or various saints?

God tells His believers to put on the whole armour that He provides for His believers and stand and He will provide all the protection needed against the firey darts of the devil. Not all believers are called to be apologists, who are actually called by God to answer to accusations against His Word. So if there is someonw out there that thinks their little brain is real real smart when it comes to shooting down the Christian faith and who Jesus really is then send your questions to someone like Ravi Zacharias at www.rzim.org or John Ankerberg at www.jashow.org plus thousands of others. They are extremely busy men but they will take the personal time to address your questions or statement against Christianity. If you are willing to do it, you will be a Bible Believer in the blink of an eye. That is a challenge to anyone, anyone on this site. As I said earlier, God's elect are called for many different ministries and all of us believe in God through 100% faith in Jesus and knowing Him personally. Not everyone is called to defend the faith in debate with those who think they have an angle. So if you think that you are gifted at attacking Christianity try one of these guys on for size or any other Christian apologist that you can find on the net. You will be a believer or a very stressed non-believer when it is all said and done. So go pick on someone that is really the size that you think you are.

granny,

Does that mean I need to put up the sugar?

Miracles and all the others,

Thank you for the vote of confidence... I'm completely blown away.

Respectfully,

Rook

no offense taken redphx. Not everyone understands the point, or joke I'm trying to make either. That's why I was confused. I was like "damn! What did I say wrong this time?!" 😳

Hi, my name is Miracles and I'm one of Rook's Followers. This is my...ummm...well, I'm not sure how many visits this makes, but I'm glad to be here 😉

Red: 😆 I'm one of Rook's followers, too, and as long as he doesn't ask me to drink the Kool-Aide, we're cool, ya' know? 😆 😆

Also too. It takes some people some time to get used to my sense of humor. It was actually a compliment to Rook. In a wierd, strange, redphx kind of way. Don't worry girl you ain't said nothin' wrong. Don't worry about it. Some people on this site may pick at you for fun. Just remember that there are members here who have good opinions and won't attack you for yours. I have been jumped on here a few times because I have a VERY different spiritual outlook on things. Close to Rook's but with a spin on it.

stephyw2001

I am just bustin' balls. ❤ I've been on the site for a while and I respect Rook with everything. And that is sayin' a lot because I practically don't really like anyone. 😆

I keep hoping that one of them takes me up on the offer as well. It would be really cool... And much popcorn would be consumed... As they prove themselves not to be JUST A TROLL.

Stephyw,

Don't worry about it. It seems that there are those who feel that either myself or those who agree with me, even if it's only on certain points, deserve to be voted down. Simply because it's me or one of my Ideas. So no worries...It's kind of sad however... I very rarely, if ever, hit those stupid Karma points. There are others that seem to 'put stock'...way to much stock in them.

Comments that have merit should be able to stand on there own merit... And support by others will be voiced in other comments, just as 'bad' ones will be 'torn apart' by those who do not support that idea.

I didn't join this site to win a popularity contest, I joined to share my experiences and to offer advice that others may find HELPFUL. I do not force anyone to attempt my suggestions, nor do try and steer people away from others suggestions, unless a Troll has visited and made a truly asinine comment. I will then make it know that the comment was just that, asinine.

So please... Keep the Jiffy Pop on hand cause you never know when someone may take up the challenge.

Respectfully,

Rook

...? Redphx I don't get it. Apparently I said something wrong? Hmmm. This site confuses me with what people think are appropriate and inappropriate comments. 😕

Rook - you got yourself some groupies. We shall call them "The Rook's Ring of Followers" LOL 😆

Rook, on a side note, I'm always so disappointed no one takes you up on your offers to duke it out here. I get so excited, thinking I might witness a religious battle of epic proportions. I even got popcorn ready once! But...::sigh:: no takers huh? 😜

I find your knowledge fascinating. At some point, I might have to have a religious/spiritual conversation with you! Once we find ourselves deep in thought somewhere, you bet I'll come knocking on your door! 😊

Damn Indigo... Well, I did look, because in her first sentence, she INVITED us to look for "proof" and gave his name. Plus, I wanted to pay my respects to the fallen soldier by honoring him. What I didn't see was anything that said wife or children. Not in the obituary, not in the press release, ONLY in the military award he received, and an online guestbook. That's why I asked if they were "legally" married. It was entirely possible that they were engaged, but not yet married, and she still considered herself his wife. I don't think it was rediculous to watch out for one of our soldiers by asking a simple question, which she simply answered. I apologized and so has Mountaineer, and many other people on that thread. IF someone were posing (which I was worried about too when I saw no mention of a wife) it would be incredibally disrespectful to that soldier, and I would have to have said something as well. It was a touchy subject, and we all had good intentions for everyone involved. I honestly think most of the commenters handled it with tact. I dont' think anyone wanted to increase Camswidows pain at all.

Indigo: The only thing I can debate in your rant is the question about whether the site owner is afraid to answer any of these Pamigas/Skittles...It's his site, what does he have to fear?...

I won't send your comment to "the void" 😆 because I feel you needed to get that out of your system... 😊

Indigo,
You should have put your post under the "Am I crazy" story for all those people thinking that they have to debunk it and everything so that they can see it.

I also thought WTF, why would you tell a soldier's widow that you googled the soldier's name and didn't find her and her son's names there... That was REALLY low and in bad taste... I was wondering how to put it into words but you took it out of my mouth. Good work!

But you know what, Indigo? I come to realize that although there are good people like you, Rook, Miracles, granny, etc. That I also have come to respect, there are even more idiots who come here to rant and rave about nothing and act like a know it all. Those people tend to give us high blood pressure so the best thing to do is to ignore that so WE don't get a heart attack.

Dusty-before you go off half cocked, javelina didn't call a 14 year old a scab, she called a 17 year old sh! T bird a scab, ok?

So many of them don't. It's a shame. Debate is good for the soul... Others have recently been invited, so let's just sit back and see what happens.

Respectfully,

Rook

I see that your friend didn't answer you back, yet. Do you really thing that he will answer your call?

Ahwatukee,

If you have followed, welcome. I have made a statement on the experience 'Seeing Creepy Things At Night' and I stand by that and wish to expand upon it here.

You mention that When Christ appeared unto His Disciples he had to reassure them he was not a Ghost...

This is true, he appeared unto them in his Resurrected Form, or His Perfected Body so that He could reside in Heaven with His Father.

Now on to your point...I'll quote so there is no misunderstanding...

"God does not allow human spirits to wander around after death. The word of God makes it clear that for those who are in Christ, when they die their spirits go to be in his presence. On the otherhand, those who die without Christ go into Hades which is within the heart of the earth and await judgment."

Now, that in and of itself makes sense if you Believe in Heavenly Father (which I do) but it's not entirely correct is it?

Our Spirit (Soul) cannot transition into Hades or Heaven without being Perfected and Judged and it cannot be Perfected and Judged until the Angel Sounds the Trump and calls forth our Spirit's (Souls) to be reunited with our Perfected Bodies so that we may stand before the Judgment Seat. I refer of course to the Resurrection and Final Judgment.

You seem to like Biblical Quotes So here are some for you...

1 Corinthians 15:41-44 41) There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. 42) So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43) It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

So, there are three Glories... The Sun (Celestial), The Moon (Telestial), and The Stars (Terrestrial)

The First (Highest) of course being Celestial which can only be entered AFTER the Resurrection when our Spirits are Joined with our Perfected Bodies and we stand before the Judgment Seat and our Eternal Fate is Decided by our actions in Life. This is where Angels and Demons abide... And aid/tempt us from.

So my question is this, Where do our Spirits go before that Trump is Sounded?

Well there are two other Kingdoms...

Telestial (The Moon): To me this represents the Spiritual Realm. Spirits (Souls) that have lived a Mortal Life and now wait for the Trump to sound. Spirits (Souls) here Teach / Protect /Taunt / Torment, as per their disposition, Mortals on the Physical Realm.

Terrestrial (The Stars): To me this represents the Physical Realm. The Spirits (Souls) who remain in this Realm are what we call 'Ghosts'. Those that died suddenly, fell they had unfinished business...suicides...any number of things may contribute to one being 'stuck' on this Realm. Reincarnation may happen from this Realm as well... As a Spirit (Soul) may have another 'turn' and completing the things it needed to experience before the Final Trump Sounds.

You have made the argument that Christ told the Disciples he was no Ghost... Because all interaction with Spirits is Demonic in Nature... I beg to differ...

Luke 24 37- 37) But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. 38) And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? And why do thoughts arise in your hearts? 39) Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

He Proved to them he was Resurrected His Spirit (Soul) Reunited with his Perfected Body... And not merely a Spirit or Ghost. He did this to prove the Prophesies were True and had been Fulfilled by Him.

Luke 24: 44) And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the Prophets, and in the Psalms, concerning me.

I do not see, nor find where it says that there is no such thing as 'Ghosts'...

So there it is, a First part for this Debate...

'Are All Ghosts Demons in Disguise?'

I look forward to your response.

Respectfully,

Rook

Your consideration of my opinion is very much appreciated, unless we put our differences in the same place, we can't consider all the possibilities and hence have a near solid near fool proof reasoning. Thank you.

People see and feel stuff all the time, only how they interpret and use the phenomenon. The difference is to reason or to reject and blame or term it supernatural or paranormal. You must have heard of people believed to be possessed possessing super human strength and stuff like that, please research about mental stability, state of mind and about something called adrenaline. And as always, there is only one thing we have to understand, that is nothing or none other than ourselves and our own mind and thinking capability. If you were to go through some spirituality stuff please read about kundalini yoga, I'm not preaching since it totally ain't religious, it is the essence of power that we consider supernatural described with an essence of science. The same kundalini we talk about is termed as chi and how martial artist use it, its science for those who harness and use it and a feat of supernatural strength for those who don't want to understand it. Its all related and as I like to put it, its all in the game!

gannubhaibtech,

Had my wife and I known she was pregnant at the time my Ship departed on that Mediterranean Cruise, then yes your idea has merit... The fact that my wife and I had been practicing 'safe sex', both of us as we were not quite ready for another child... (She was 'on the Pill', I was using condoms... So there was really no reason to even think she was pregnant. (Yes even though all precautions are taken it can happen... But what are those odds?)

She had the doctor test her as her cycle was off and she wanted to know why. I'm not sure if she got the results the same day that this incident happened or not... I never asked, I think I will as that would be an interesting point.

Thank you for your interesting perspective.

Respectfully,

Rook

have you ever given it this thought or interpreted this way from somewhere, somehow, you had the name in mind and its just that an illusion that took form and gave you the name and the still born baby had nothing to do with it and it is just mind playing tricks as you yourself have stated it in case of your friend seeing you in robes? My dear friend, its just like Archimedes running naked shouting eureka and if he added a hint of paranormal to this he would have been many folds famous. You want more examples, how about von kekule who tried to figure out the structure of benzene? Did he see demons circling in the form of serpents? What if he too added the fact that a demon or for the obvious something paranormal gave him the idea? Humor me! Otherwise a good story, depends on all what one believes. You had an experience!

Moongrim,

So what about this experience of mine makes you feel it's 'QUASI RELIGIOUS' or makes you say...

"The man is another Peter Popoff. Someone who invented his 'holy land' experience, as a way of creating false credentials."

This experience is not only my own... If you truly read this you'll see that part of this was something my liberty partner experienced in Jerusalem, not me.

As far as what I experienced at the Church in Bethlehem...I'll quote myself so there is no misunderstanding...

"We entered the small room and while in there I was overcome with emotion. I saw a baby girl's face and a name flashed across my mind. I raced out of the space and out into the open air of the courtyard."

I never said anything about this being a Religious Experience... Not once did I say... Heavenly Father spoke to me, Or Jesus visited me, or even The Saint 'so and so' told me... I simply related what happened in this small room down below the alter in a church in Bethlehem. If the fact that Millions of people feel this is a Holy Place makes this a religious experience then so be it... Think what you will... What happened, happened and nothing you say or believe will change that fact.

As far as comparing me to Harold Camping... HOW DARE YOU...I'm not out there trying to convince people the world is going to end, nor am I making any predictions or even attempting to make money. I am merely a man who has...let's see 44-7=37...37 years of wonder, seeking, reading and/or practical knowledge/experience. Knowledge/EXPERIENCE that I try and help people with. I'm sorry that bothers you.

As I said before, let's agree to disagree. Knock off the personal attacks, you post your responses, I'll post mine and let the O/P and other members decide who's advice they want to use.

I may not have all the answers, never claimed to either... People come to this site asking for understanding and or help...it's up to them to decide based on everyone's inputs, what helps and what does not... LET THEM DECIDE.

Respectfully,

Rook

Rook: I do believe our friend Moongrim is mistaken in his attempt at name-calling:

Name-calling
Noun
The use of abusive names to belittle or humiliate another person in a political campaign, an argument, etc.

Instead, I think the term he intended to use is "paranormal snob" LMAO!😆 😆 😆

My apologies I seemed to have misspelled hear as here in my reply to Moongrim. Sorry about that.

Respectfully,

Rook

Mountaineer,

Thank you for the comments. The visit there was absolutely incredible and I hope you get your chance to visit one day.

Respectfully,

Rook

Moongrim,

I didn't invite you here to impress you, nor did I ever make a claim that this experience was religious... Did it take place in areas that millions of people consider Holy? Yeah, that they did, but I never once said these were 'religious experiences' just things that I myself or in this case, a friend had experienced that were 'out of the norm'.

Now, I've seen you offer some really good advice... The backward masking comment was really top notch... And while I do not agree with your 'cold iron' solution I merely pointed out that even in the link you provided that it's a 'Fairy Folklore' remedy and not for 'all' spirits or entities, or even negative energy for that matter.

Now your here... Now is your chance, so have your say... You call me Charlatan: a person who pretends or claims to have more knowledge or skill than he or she possesses; quack.

Why do you think this? Why is my Shield/Cleansing Ritual "fluffy bunny stuff", Yes I saw that comment of yours as well...

At the moment I'll let my Advice and my Experiences stand on their own Merit.

You've made the accusation, now let's here your arguments (reasons) why.

And please see 'The Shadow Man Returns'. I have made a comment you may just find 'interesting'.

Http://www.yourghoststories.com/real-ghost-story.php?story=12889

Respectfully,

Rook

YO MOONY!
Explain "charlatan", as it pertains to Rook. You've been hollering about it for days. And all accusations aside, you haven't shown us why you say he's a charlatan. You just keep saying it like a broken record. How about an example? Without giving a reason for the accusation, it just makes you look jealous somehow.

Jav

Rookgydin. This is an interesting story. I hope to visit Jerusalem myself some day.

Moongrim. Is there really any need to take an aggressive tone on this? And calling rookdygin a charlatan? Come now, this is a website about ghost stories. If youre going to call one person a charlatan you might as well find every person on this site and call them charlatans too. And actually, I recently watched a documentary about "true crosses" throughout history. According to their estimates, only enough wood has been claimed to be part of the true cross to constitute about a third of the cross's actual size. I'm not necessarily saying that all these chunks of wood are the real deal, just that your statement is inaccurate.

I take it I'm supposed to be impressed with your quasi-religious experiences?

Fail.

Enough wood has been found of the "True Cross" that Christ was supposedly nailed to, that a church could be built from it. Nails included.

So you had a mystical mumbo jumbo experience in the holy land. Whoopie.

And now this is supposed to make you a Supernatural Super Hero?

Try again, charlatan.

Moongrim,

It was bad enough when you called me Charlatan, that at least was addressed directly at me and I had some respect towards you for that...

But now, after I offered an experience that we could discuss things on, a place where you would have a chance to prove your point you have to go around and 'hide in the shadows'...

I signed on tonight and I'm going through recent comments on experiences I've posted on and I see this... (I'll quote you so there is no misunderstanding...)

"Ghosts and ghost stories can be pretty hard to swallow, particularly when someone claims to be a 'Supernatural Superhero' when it comes to being an expert on ghosts, demons, and more importantly, Tarot Cards..."

I have never made that claim. Sure I'm an 'old fart' (44 years old). Sure I have studied or have experienced lots of things and from these studies and experiences I form MY OPINIONS in an attempt to help others. Sure I use Tarot Cards and believe in God.

None of these things give you the RIGHT NOR PRIVILEGE to say the things you are.

Here's your chance, let's hear what you have to say... Here on one of my experiences so we do not take away from others... STEP UP OR STEP OFF...I'm tired of your pussyfooting around... BRING IT.

My experience, YOUR TURN

ROOK DYGIN

"What I 'think'":
Spirits are the "aftermath" existences of dead humans/animals/anything living, even plants. I think we leave an impact on some sort of energy-based level, that when we die there's a bit of an after-effect for a little while from those energies. Which creates visional images of what we once looked like, certain objects we touched a lot while alive, would still be "moved" by the aftermath energy, etc. But after a while, those energies fade, just like memories can do after a very long time, and thus the living assume that we've "moved on".

Now...

"What I 'believe'":
I believe that there is life after death. I believe how we die alters our freedom after death. I believe the spirit world holds more entities than just dead living creatures, and those entities are of a more "darker" nature (Demons). I don't believe the biblical information behind Angels and Demons, although admittedly it does interest me greatly. I believe Angels can be found within everyone. I believe Demons originate from a "dimension" we haven't learned about yet, and that dimension links with ours via the spirit world.
I believe that the more we experience and learn while alive, can seriously effect our control in the after-life. For example: Being able to exist as a spirit without torment, and able to make contact with the living/move physical objects.

Overall I believe in balance. "Taoism" is perhaps the closest link to how I feel about existence. "Tao" and "Chi" are two energies that exist, and both must exist or there would be no existence. "Tao" represents the dead and "Chi" represents the living. I don't believe in karma as other's would, but I believe we create our own side-effects/reactions and consequences by the choices we make.

I believe in "termoil energy" - example: if there's a lot of negative converse and actions, the "environment" itself becomes negative.

I also believe in "residual energy", although my knowledge around that is quite slim admittedly. Though for what I know, the energy records events into the fabric of objects, and certain people can read that information from the objects with their natural senses or empathy.

And so...

"What do I think about the genesis of 'existence'"?
I believe the, for lack of a better term, 'cosmos' is too complex to have generated itself from a "Big bang" persay. I think some form of intelligence had to play role in the creation of all of these things in life. Why? Because when we use Science to study life and it's wonders; we notice all of these natural "smart" chain of math 'facts' about things. We put this smart build-up down to "nature".

Anyways, those are my views and beliefs~

Zeo 😊

I don't really have enough knowledge of this topic (aside from the scientific point of view) to make any king of meaningful impact on this thread. But for a number of years I too have thought of the reincarnation aspect where the soul gets many many opportunities to become fully experienced before rejoining the all knowing energy that we came from

Jav,

Thanks I needed that... 😉

Now onto the question I posted... Where do spirits/entities come from?

For me... Who believes in a Creator... Well here it goes.

This Creator (First Intelligence) was formed by the big bang... The very first thing that formed... It realized it could manipulate the Energy from that explosion and gave itself a 'form'...Then it formed many, many other intelligences so it wasn't alone.

This intelligence went on to form The Universe... Planets and such...

Let's focus on the Earth... This Intelligence formed the Earth and as the energies came together 'lesser intelligences' were formed and they attached themselves to the newly formed elements, became the 'Fey' ect. These non-human entities exist to this day.

Now for it...

Spirits = The animal 'breath of life'. The reason animal 'ghosts' exist.

Souls = The human being 'breath of life'. The reason Human's have 'free will' and that human 'ghosts exist.

In my opinion the biggest difference between Humans and animals is 'free will'. Animals react on pure instinct. Humans have a 'free will' which allows them to 'override' basic instincts. Having said that...

The 'soul' occupies a human body in order that it may have a physical experience, which enables it to 'rejoin' with it's physical body after the Resurrection (Personal belief there).

A soul may experience all it needs to experience in one life time or it may have to experience many 'lives' in order to experience all 'life' has to offer (Reincarnation). It may only 're-join' with one body... The body it completes it's experiences in... The others return to the 'earth' they came from... (I hope that makes sense)

So to sum up...

There are Two Types of Non-Human Entities...

Angels/Demons = (have to include both) Have never had a 'Human Form'. Reside with The Creator or The Devil...

The Elementals / Fey and other's that were created when the Earth was formed.

There are Two Types of Spirit's...

Animal = Gives 'life' to animals... And can become 'ghosts'.

Soul = Gives 'life' to Humans, also provides Free Will. Can become a 'Ghost.

I do hope my rambling has made some sort of sense. If not please ask questions.

Respectfully,

Rook

Rook,
If I didn't get this chance to put this in I could never forgive myself. And Lou, I don't know how this pastor will feel about this in 20 years, but today we're all thanking him for the smile he put on our faces and that "laughing in church" reflex that once it catches you won't let you go.

Jav
😆 ❤

Http://kool.radio.com/2011/07/25/the-greatest-pre-race-prayer-in-nascar-history/

Rook - I've been dwelling on your question ever since you posted it and I when I'm able to get my thoughts together enough that they make sense to me LOL, I'll be back.

I like this topic very much and am extremely surprised that no one has touched this. Frankly, I'm also very disappointed. Religion seems to bring out the best and worse in everyone, I guess 😕 🤔 Or maybe it's just a topic people seem to like to talk about LOL

Lou - the comment about the bout of insanity was in reference to the posted phone number, nothing else 😊

If I am, who would be able to tell? See you on the other side. I'll be the one with the Indian girl, selling high heeled soap carvings along the road side.;)

Lou

Hey Lou - I was wondering if you were having a bout of insanity 😉

I'm with ya' Miracles. Nobody deserves the hardships some of us endure... But when we come through them, as much as they have taken from us... They have helped us form our perspectives. I realize mistakes I made in the past, on a regular basis...heck, I'm still making them. Life happens to us all. I'm looking forward to your family reunion as much as my own. Until then, they're all in good hands.

Lou

Lou - wow, when you asked that question I bet you had no idea how hard that question was really going to be for me to answer. I think most of y'all know I believe in being truthful, even at my own expense, so at my own expense I have to say, no 20 years ago I was not the same person I am today. But I need to step back a few years to explain something that's even more personal, but helps explain a little bit more about me.

When I was 19, I got pregnant. I wasn't married, wasn't even really "dating" the biological father. I didn't want a baby, so I decided I was going to give the baby up for adoption when the time came. I was determined in my decision. I never wanted children. Ever. I loved kids, just never wanted any of my own. When I was 13 1/2 weeks, I miscarried. My youngest stepdaughter is the same age that baby would be if it had lived.

So, Lou, no I am not the person I was then. I like to think I am a better person. There are days I believe I am 😉 and then there are other days I wonder who in the world I am LOL.

As much as I would like to, to some degree, I will not drag this thread back to four days ago when I was last able to participate.
I'm pretty close to Aussie in my beliefs and experiences. I was raised with a religious background, not a spiritual one. As soon as I was old enough, I ran from it and swore never to look back.
I do not think that intelligence or spirituality have an age requirement, but I do believe that if you know more about what you don't believe in, than what you do, your spiritual development is just that, developing... Just like everyone else's...including mine.
Miracles, love you, thank you for sharing. Don't mean to pick on you here, but you seem to be someone who put themself in the middle of this to make a point, so I thought I might ask your opinion. Would you be the person you are today, without the experiences you had, as painful as they were?

My point is, I'm not the person I was twenty years ago; nor am I the person I will be twenty from now.
People change, and although their core beliefs may not, their perspective on them will.

To All. Think of something in your life you think is the ultimate, coolest, sickest (trying to talk like my kids) thing out there, that you enjoy and hold reverence to. Now, go out and get a tattoo to commemorate it... All done? Great! Here's my number...207-495-6295...call me in twenty years and tell me how you feel about it.

Lou

Re-posted because I would like to read everyone's opinion on this question... There have to almost as many Ideas as there are people...

Where do 'ghosts and or other entities come from? You may use Biblical references or what ever 'Faith' you come from... Or just your general ideas on the spirit world are welcome...

Respectfully,

Rook

Thank you Jav, your kind thoughts are most welcomed and appreciated, all the best to you too mate...lol

aussiedaz,
My very first mate of all mates! I wasn't coming back here, I really had put my foot down on it. But what you wrote here was one of the most beautiful things you've ever written. And you've written a lot of them. I couldn't pass by this without stopping and leaving much respect in your wake, mate. Once again you have floored me with your insights into what I have such a hard time putting into words myself, and God knows I love you for that. You are a good man aussie, and I'm proud to call you my friend.

Much love,
Bluey ❤

I too was only going to observe here D/A and let me say I think your a very bright and intelligent young lady and your input is most welcomed here by me anyway lol... But seeming Rook has asked the question, I thought I would come back one more time and share something else with you all, I have changed my mind a few times on my own spiritual path... From at one point being a full on practising Christian at the age of 16 to becoming an atheist around the age of 27 from memory and then back to spiritualism and now currently putting my faith in the God of love, which is a kind of a each way bet on all religions, I do believe its healthy to believe in something and if your something makes you a better person then who am I to tell you your wrong... Funny thing was when I was an atheist, I use to get into friendly arguments all the time with others so I learnt a few things from that and not what to do when discussing religion... I have had my fare share of spiritual experiences throughout my life some of them I choose not to talk about... One of them I feel is important to talk about cause it does make reference to the topic at hand... Those of you who have ever felt the seduction of an succubus/incubus would understand how powerful and intense/addictive that feeling is and how hard it is to deny its charm over you... Well let me tell you all there is another spirit out there of which the Christians call the Holy Spirit or the Spirit of Love... One day when I was praying to my God I felt this Spirit cradle me... It was the most beautiful and divine feeling I have ever had... Here's the only way I can describe it... Imagine a child separated from its mother at birth... Imagine this child hungry cold and alone for days in the elements of nature... Exposed to all its flaws and dangers... Imagine the mother picking up her child and giving her a hug although this child could not see his mother, he could feel the love and warmth and comfort of that unison... Now times the intensity of that by ten and that is what it felt like to feel the mother spirit... If you asked me which experience was more powerful and intense? The only reason I'd mention the other rubish in the same breath... Hands down on the spirit of love/holy spirit, it is so powerful that it must of been a heavenly touch... That experience alone makes me believe that there is a God... Amazingly after that, somewhere along my road not only did I loose my faith I believed in Jack nothing and was contempt with death being final... Until one day, only days after my father died... Sitting with my mother she told me about her experience the night before... She told me, she wanted to die and go to heaven to be with my father she felt like giving up, cause she loved him with all her heart... Here I was at the time, the almighty atheist who knew there was no heaven and thinking mum its all a part of grieving until she described her experience... I knew in my heart and had a flash back to my own experience with the spirit of love/holy spirit and the rest is history and here I am today. Lol just thought I would share that... Now I'm going back to observing... Cheers aussie.

Devious - thank you and yes, they are my entire world and it breaks my heart when I hear or see people who abuse their children. Don't get me wrong, I'm a very strict mom LOL. But as my dr said, all children are miracles. I just don't understand why people don't see that. Sorry, getting emotional over here, didn't mean too.

Thank you for letting me twist your arm into reading this 😉.

Firstly, a few topic-related things...

Miracles: I am so sorry about the loss of your children, and I do believe that someone or something pulled strings for you to bring your healthy babies into this world. I am so happy for your success and I cannot even begin to imagine how special your little ones are to you after beating the odds.

Rook: Thank you for bringing your perspective about that scripture into play. That very scripture has been thrown at me in regards to my criticism of evangelism in the militant sense, not so much the gentler and more subtle methods. I do agree that the whole book is very strongly based on interpretation, and hence what leads to so many arguments and branching of sects. I also agree, since you mention it, that the intended interpretation was to spread the word and to show kindness and understanding; to allow that to be the recruitment in and of itself rather than using the scripture as an excuse to go around waving the Book and shouting at people that they will go to hell if they don't submit to the will of God. I do not think it was meant to be as fire and brimstone as it has become. Rook, all BS aside, I think you are more of the type of Christian that I can respect because you have your own opinions and seem know pretty well what you are talking about.

Aussiedaz: I have no disagreement with your comment mate. 😊 As I said, I do believe Jesus was a real person who deserved a lot of love and respect for the man he was. I think he tried his best to spread the idea of love, community and good will to everyone and unfortunately his ideas made him an enemy of the deeply political environment in which he lived.

Now onto the argument issues...

Taz & Darkness: I appreciate your guys' input. I do agree, a true friend would understand if someone disagreed with something that was said. I have no problem pointing out that yes, I am one of the people who has clicked the down vote on some of Jav's comments. Not all, but some, mostly the more recent ones which I disagreed with because I felt they were rude, childish or just did not make sense. That is not limited to the comments on this thread of course, but I did not just randomly go on some karmic downvoting spree to be a spiteful b-word. I do not see the point in wasting anyone's time downvoting comments that have nothing wrong with them. Do I feel the need to offer an explanation for each and every one? Certainly not. Jav has made it clear that she does not want to deal with me outside of arguing.

In short, I am going to bow out of this conversation because it is clear that there are people here who do not want my input. Whereas that normally won't thwart me from speaking my mind and contributing, I do not want this thread to get locked either directly or indirectly because of my presence. I will continue to observe the discussion and hopefully learn something from what is being said.

Ah, each and every 'player' had choices to make during their lives that brought them to that point in time... At any time they could have made a choice that took them down a different path... If there is a 'Miracle' in this story it's that all the 'right' players made all the 'right' choices to be in the 'right place at the 'right' time.

I wonder if people don't get too hung up on the overall story... Let me explain...

In the case of Peter... They say...That's just wrong, I never could have betrayed Christ knowing what he knew. I ask them... Have you ever faced an angry Mob looking for a target?

In the case of Judas... Well it boils down to the same basic question... Have you ever done something you thought was the 'right' thing and seen people actually hurt by your actions?

Not to toss a Blankie over this part of the conversation but we are waxing way religious and Biblical and this is a site for Ghostly experiences...I'd like to steer this conversation back that way... (No, not running, please e-mail me via the addie on my profile if you, any of you, wish to continue this part of the conversation.)

So, to anyone who cares to answer... Where do 'ghosts and or other entities come from? You may use Biblical references or what ever 'Faith' you come from... Or just your general ideas on the spirit world are welcome...

Respectfully,

Rook

Right...now we are getting into it, "He stacked the deck" "People were not there by chance" If free will was indeed exercised then God could not have made sure the right people were there. They would have had to choose to be there...? 😁

I believe the Pharisees were better manipulators than that... I'm sure there were some that wondered why Pilate (thanks for the spelling correction... 😁) was saying that... But by the time it reached him it was a Mob mentality that he was dealing with and as such there wasn't much he could say or do to change the Mobs mind.

Forget not that this mentality lasted for days... Christ was seen by Pilate... Sent to Herod... And returned... All the while the crowd was being 'stirred up' by the Pharisees So by the time Christ was returned the Mob was at a fever pitch against 'Him'.